Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines

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The purpose of a page's associated talk page (accessible via the talk or discussion tab) is to provide space for editors to discuss editing that page. Article talk pages should not be used by editors as platforms for their personal views on a subject. When talk pages in other namespaces (including userspace) are used for discussion and communication between users, discussion should be directed solely toward the improvement of the encyclopedia.

The names of talk pages associated with articles begin with Talk:. For example, the talk page for the article Australia is named Talk:Australia.

The guidelines below reinforce the prime values of talk pages: communication, courtesy, and consideration. They apply not only to article discussion pages but everywhere editors interact, such as deletion discussions and noticeboards.

Central points

Maintain Wikipedia policy

There is reasonable allowance for speculation, suggestion, and personal knowledge on talk pages, with a view to prompting further investigation, but it is usually a misuse of a talk page to continue to argue any point that has not met policy requirements. Pay particular attention to Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons, which applies to talk pages as well as to articles: "Editors must take particular care adding information about living persons to any Wikipedia page."

Creating talk pages

Talk pages are generally created by clicking a red "Talk" tab and creating the page, like any other page.

Do not create an empty talk page simply so that one will exist for future use. There is no need to add discussion warning templates to every talk page, or even to every talk page that contains a discussion.

How to use article talk pages

  • Communicate: If in doubt, make the extra effort so that other people understand you. Being friendly is a great help. It is always a good idea to explain your views; it is less helpful for you to voice an opinion on something but not explain why you hold it. Explaining why you have a certain opinion helps to demonstrate its validity to others and reach consensus.
  • Stay on topic: Talk pages are for discussing the article, not for general conversation about the article's subject (much less other subjects). Keep discussions focused on how to improve the article. Comments that are plainly irrelevant are subject to archiving or removal.
  • No meta: Extended meta-discussions about editing belong on noticeboards, in Wikipedia-talk, or in User-talk namespaces, not in Article-talk namespace.
  • Be positive: Article talk pages should be used to discuss ways to improve an article; not to criticize, pick apart, or vent about the current status of an article or its subject. This is especially true on the talk pages of biographies of living people. However, if you're not sure how to fix something, feel free to draw attention to this and ask for suggestions.
  • Be polite: Article talk pages are at the end of the day civil discussions between users who have lives outside of Wikipedia, that influences their behaviors and manners. In serious discussions it is key to remain calm, respectful and patient with the other user. If a fallacy (see list of fallacies) is noticed when debating Wikipedia’s general guidelines, remain civil and above all do not use this to anger the other user. Respectful arguments are relaxing!
Stay objective: Talk pages are not a place for editors to argue their personal point of view about a controversial issue. They are a place to discuss how the points of view of reliable sources should be included in the article, so that the end result is neutral. The best way to present a case is to find properly referenced material.
  • Deal with facts: The talk page is the ideal place for issues relating to verification, such as asking for help finding sources, discussing conflicts or inconsistencies among sources, and examining the reliability of references. Asking for a verifiable reference supporting a statement is often better than arguing against it.
  • Share material: The talk page can be used to "park" material removed from the article due to verification or other concerns, while references are sought or concerns discussed. New material can be prepared on the talk page until it is ready to be put into the article; this is an especially good idea if the new material (or topic as a whole) is controversial.
  • Discuss edits: The talk page is particularly useful to talk about edits. If one of your edits has been reverted, and you change it back again, it is good practice to leave an explanation on the talk page and a note in the edit summary that you have done so. The talk page is also the place to ask about another editor's changes. If someone questions one of your edits, make sure you reply with a full, helpful rationale.
  • Make proposals: Proposals for improving the article can be put forward for discussion by other editors. Such proposals might include changes to specific points, page moves, mergers or making a section of a long article into a separate article.
  • Good practices for talk pages

    Check whether there's already a discussion on the same topic. Duplicate discussions (on a single page, or on multiple pages) are confusing and time-wasting, and may be interpreted as forum shopping. If the subject is a controversial or popular one, consider checking the talk-page archives before opening a new thread. (Many talk pages have a Search archives box near the top.)
  • Read before commenting: Familiarizing yourself with a discussion before participating makes it easier to build consensus.
  • Comment on content, not on the contributor or It's the edits that matter, not the editor: Keep the discussions focused on the topic of the talk page, rather than on the editors participating.
  • Use English: This is the English-language Wikipedia; discussions should normally be conducted in English. If using another language is unavoidable, try to provide a translation, or get help at Wikipedia:Embassy. Do not expect readers to translate your content themselves, not even when modern browsers have machine translation built-in.
  • Be concise: Long posts risk being ignored or misunderstood. Talk pages with a good signal-to-noise ratio tend to attract continued participation. If you really need to make a detailed, point-by-point post, see below for tips.
  • Keep discussions focused: Discussions naturally should finalize by agreement, not by exhaustion.
  • Avoid repeating your posts: Your fellow editors can read your prior posts, so repeating them wastes time and space and may be considered bludgeoning the discussion.
  • Avoid starting the same discussion on multiple pages, which fragments discussion. Instead, start the discussion in one location and, if appropriate, advertise it elsewhere via a link. If you find a fragmented discussion, consider moving all posts to one location and linking from the old locations to the new. State clearly in edit summaries and on talk pages what you have done and why. (See Wikipedia:Content forking/Internal § Discussion forks.)
  • Do not bite the newcomers: If someone does something against custom, assume it was an unwitting mistake; gently point out their mistake (referencing relevant policies and guidelines) and suggest a better approach.
  • Link abbreviations: To assist newbies, consider linking to Wikipedia abbreviations and terms of art when they first appear in a thread.
  • Avoid excessive emphasis: ALL CAPS and enlarged fonts may be considered shouting and are rarely appropriate. Bolding may be used to highlight key words or phrases but should be used judiciously. Italics are often used for emphasis or clarity but should be avoided for long passages. Exclamation marks similarly should be used judiciously. Overuse of emphasis can undermine its impact! If adding emphasis to quoted text, say so.
  • Keep the layout clear: Use standard formatting and threading. If you include references, add {{reflist-talk}} or {{sources-talk}} after your comment, to keep citations within your thread. See Talk page layout.
  • Use separate subsection headings to discuss multiple changes: If you arrive at the "discussion" part of the "bold, revert, discuss" (BRD) cycle, and the subject involves a number of separate changes you would like to see, try to break down the different changes, and your reasons and reliable sources for each one, under separate subsection headings (===Example===). Mixing it all into one long post complicates discussion.
  • Sign your posts. When you have the "Enable quick topic adding" preference enabled and use the "Add topic" link to create a new discussion, or reply to a comment using the "reply" link, then your posts will be automatically signed.[1] Otherwise, you can sign manually using four tildes (~~~~), which turn into your username and a timestamp, like this: ExampleUser 14:07, 5 April 2024 (UTC).[2][reply]
  • The minor flag is only for typographical corrections, formatting fixes, and similar changes that do not substantively change content.
  • Behavior that is unacceptable

    Stay in the top three sections of this pyramid.

    Please note that some of the following are of sufficient importance to be official Wikipedia policy. Violations (and especially repeated violations) may lead to the offender being blocked or banned from editing Wikipedia.

    Editing others' comments

    It is not necessary to bring talk pages to publishing standards, so there is no need to copy edit others' posts. Doing so can be irritating. The basic rule, with exceptions outlined below, is to not edit or delete others' posts without their permission.

    Never edit or move someone's comment to change its meaning, even on your own talk page.

    Striking out text with <s>...</s> or {{strike}} or marking text as deleted with <del>...</del> constitutes a change in meaning. It should be done only by the user who wrote it, or as otherwise provided in this talk page guideline.

    Generally, you should not break up another editor's text by interleaving or interpolating your own replies to individual points. This causes confusion with who said what and obscures the original editor's intent.

    In your own posts, you may wish to use the {{Talk quotation}} or {{Talkquote}} templates to quote others' posts.

    Cautiously editing or removing another editor's comments is sometimes allowed, but normally you should stop if there is any objection. If you make anything more than minor changes, it is good practice to leave a short explanatory note such as "[potential libel removed by ~~~~]".

    Examples of appropriately editing others' comments

    In the past, it was standard practice to "summarize" talk page comments, but this practice has fallen out of use. On regular wikis with no "talk" tab, the summary would end up as the final page content. Wikipedia has separate tabs for article content and discussion pages. Refactoring and archiving are still appropriate, but should be done with courtesy and reversed on protest.

    Editing own comments

    So long as no one has yet responded to your comment, it's accepted and common practice that you may continue to edit your remarks for a short while to correct mistakes, add links or otherwise improve them. If you've accidentally posted to the wrong page or section or if you've simply changed your mind, it's been only a short while and no one has yet responded, you may remove your comment entirely.

    But if anyone has already replied to or quoted your original comment, changing your comment may deprive any replies of their original context, and this should be avoided. Once others have replied, or even if no one's replied but it's been more than a short while, if you wish to change or delete your comment, it is commonly best practice to indicate your changes. An exception to this rule may be permitted if there is only one reply and it invokes WP:MUTUAL.

    Non-compliance

    Persistently formatting your comments on a talk page in a non-compliant manner, after friendly notification by other editors, is a mild form of disruption. After you have been alerted to specific aspects of these guidelines (such as indentation, sectioning, and signatures), you are expected to make a reasonable effort to follow those conventions. Other editors may simply ignore additional posts that flagrantly disregard the talk page formatting standards. You can also expect to have your mis-formatted posts refactored to comply.

    Disputes

    If you have a disagreement or a problem with someone's behavior, please read Wikipedia:Dispute resolution.

    Closing discussions

    Closing a discussion means summarizing the results, and identifying any consensus that has been achieved. A rule of thumb is that discussions should be kept open at least a week before closing, although there are some exceptions to this.

    Any uninvolved editor may write a closing statement for most discussions, not just admins. However, if the discussion is particularly contentious or the results are especially unclear, then a request specifically for a closing statement from an uninvolved administrator may be preferable.

    Requesting a close

    Any participant in a discussion may request that an uninvolved editor or admin formally close any type of discussion (not just RFCs), if any one or more of the following criteria are true:

    Please do not request a closing statement from an uninvolved editor unless one of these three criteria have been met.

    You may request that an uninvolved editor formally close a discussion by placing a note at Wikipedia:Closure requests. Please ensure that any request there seeking a close is neutrally worded, and do not use that board to continue the discussion in question. If you are requesting attention specifically from an admin, then please state that clearly in your request.

    Marking a closed discussion

    When an issue has been resolved without controversy, this may be marked simply by adding the {{Resolved}} template at the top of the thread, adding a brief statement of how the issue was dealt with. If you took action yourself to resolve the issue you may instead use the {{Done}} template in your own final comment stating what you did. Adding one of these templates will help future readers to spot more quickly those issues that remain unresolved.

    When a more complex discussion has been closed, to discourage any further comments you may optionally use the {{Archive top}} and {{Archive bottom}} templates (although some particular types of discussion, such as those which concern whether to delete or rename a page, have their own specialized templates) — {{Archive top}} and {{Archive bottom}} templates should not be used by involved parties to end a discussion over the objections of other editors. For example:

    {{Archive top|result=Consensus below is in favor of this proposal. (detailed explanation) ~~~~}}
    Discussion text...
    {{Archive bottom}}

    ... which produces:

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


    Discussion text...

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    If a discussion has been so disruptive or pointless that it is better for editors to waste no further time even looking at it, the alternative templates {{Hidden archive top}} and {{Hidden archive bottom}} can be used instead, to produces a similar "closure box" around it, but collapsed to hide the content, as with off-topic threads. If a particular unconstructive block of an otherwise useful discussion should be hidden, use {{Collapse top}} and {{Collapse bottom}}.

    Technical and format standards

    Layout

    Indentation and screen readers

    Summary: WP:LISTGAP fixes: don't change list type, don't skip indentation levels, no extra spaces between replies.

    New topics and headings on talk pages

    Links, time, and page name

    Archiving

    Large talk pages are difficult to read and load slowly over slow connections. As a rule of thumb, archive closed discussions when a talk page exceeds 75 KB in wikitext or has numerous resolved or stale discussions – see Help:Archiving a talk page. Apart from the exception described in WP:OWNTALK, discussions should be archived, not blanked.

    If a thread has been archived prematurely, such as when it is still relevant to current work or was not concluded, unarchive it by copying it back to the talk page from the archive, and deleting it from the archive. Do not unarchive a thread that was effectively closed; instead, start a new discussion and link to the archived prior discussion.

    Centralized talk pages

    Often, there are a number of related pages that would benefit from one single talk page for discussions. For example, a list article may have grown too large and was split alphabetically. Or there may be a set of templates that are used together or interrelated MediaWiki interface pages.

    Before implementing a centralized talk page, consider first gaining consensus for your proposal. The main discussion would usually be on the proposed centralized talk page with notices on the pages to be redirected. Notices may be placed on related pages as needed; for example, a relevant WikiProject page or Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals). {{Centralize notice}} may be used to note the proposal.

    If consensus is gained, then:

    1. Archive current discussions on all the talk pages to be centralized; see Help:Archiving a talk page
    2. Check each talk page for subpages. These are usually archived discussions, but other subpages are sometimes created, such as drafts or reviews. See Wikipedia:Subpages#Finding subpages.
    3. On the centralized talk page, list the redirected pages. {{Central}} is useful for this.
    4. On the centralized talk page, list all of the archived talk pages. {{Archive banner}} is useful for this.
    5. Redirect each talk page to the desired talk page; see Wikipedia:Redirect. It is recommended that an editnotice be created for the redirected talk pages; see Wikipedia:Editnotice. {{Editnotice central redirected}} is useful for this.
    6. It is recommended that an editnotice be created for the centralized talk page. {{Editnotice central}} is useful for this.
    7. Ensure that involved editors realize that they need to add the centralized talk page to their watchlist.

    Examples of centralized talk pages: Talk:List of aircraft, Help talk:Cite errors, Help talk:Footnotes, and MediaWiki talk:Common.css.

    User talk pages

    User talk pages are subject to the general userpage guidelines on handling inappropriate content (see User pages § Handling inappropriate content).

    While the purpose of article talk pages is to discuss the content of articles, the purpose of user talk pages is to draw the attention or discuss the edits of a user. Wikipedia is not a social networking site, and all discussion should ultimately be directed solely toward the improvement of the encyclopedia. User talk pages must serve their primary purpose, which is to make communication and collaboration among editors easier. Editors who refuse to use their talk page for these purposes are violating the spirit of the talk page guidelines, and are not acting collaboratively.

    Personal talk page cleanup

    The length of user talk pages, and the need for archiving, is left up to each editor's own discretion.

    Although archiving is preferred, users may freely remove comments from their own talk pages. Users may also remove some content in archiving. The removal of a warning is taken as evidence that the warning has been read by the user; this is true whether the removal was manual or automatic, and includes both registered and unregistered users. Some new users believe they can hide critical comments by deleting them. This is not true: Such comments can always be retrieved from the page history.

    There are certain types of notices that users may not remove from their own talk pages, such as declined unblock requests and speedy deletion tags (see User pages § Removal of comments, notices, and warnings for full details).

    User talk pages are almost never deleted, although a courtesy blanking may be requested.

    Talk page search

    You can use the Special:Search box below to locate Talk pages. See Help:Searching for more information.

    See also

    Notes

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