Talk:List of heads of state of Mexico
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Gabriel Valencia was or was not president of Mexico, depending on what list you look at. See, for example, here, which says he was interim president for three days. (Pedro Lascurain is included in most lists, as he is in this article, although he was president for only 45 minutes.) The ordinals here are bogus. There are differences among lists, and the last time I looked they did not fit any list because they contained errors. This is a case of forcing the data to fit a paradigm. Rbraunwa 12:28, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I just finished the article on Gabriel Valencia. I am now moderately in favor of including him on the list of Mexican presidents. In favor, because there was a formal transfer of power from a constitutional president to him, and he is listed here as a "constitutional" president himself. Moderately, because he occupied the position for such a brief period, because he held it on an interim basis and was never intended to exercise power, because it was part of a coup and not really a constitutional transfer, and because he is not listed in a majority of lists of Mexican presidents. However, he is listed in quite a few.
This list has many problems. For this period at least nearly all the dates disagree with the dates in my Mexican sources. However, my sources don't always agree with each other, so it would be a major project to go through, compare the list and the sources, and make decisions about what dates were most likely to be correct. Perhaps someone has already done this, but I doubt it. Not only are many dates questionable, but some transfers of power are completely omitted, usually when they were for short terms or perhaps when they were nominal rather than real transfers. All that needs to be looked into. And when the number of transfers of power is not agreed on, the ordinals are useless. Worse then useless, they are false and misleading.
I might be able to take on this project, but I can't do it immediately. Right now I am traveling and away from some of my best reference material.
It would make sense in the interim to remove the ordinals entirely and to indicate somehow that the transition dates are provisional. The easiest way to do that would just be to state it in the introduction of the article. Another option would be to remove the days, leaving just the months and years. Even some of the months are in dispute, but omitting the days would indicate a lack of precision, and would be sufficient I think for the time being.
I would like to hear other comments.
--Rbraunwa 20:20, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I do not write articles in english, but translate a lot of them in french. I noticed exactly the same problems with the list in french as well as with the spanish list. I am not even sure the mexican governement has the exact dates for each President and maybe not even their names.
When someone is president just for a few days or just a few hours, there are always oponents to pretend he never was President. By the way, it seems it's a living tradition in Mexico... Does anyone know who will be President of Mexico the 1st of december 2006, Calderón or Lopez Obrador ? ;-)
I am sorry if this answer doesn't help, I can't make a decision, at the moment, uppon changing dates to month and year only rather than day, month and year.
Up to me the article in english became a bit to luxuous (and too complicated to upgrade) for a list which may evoluate, due to historical research.
PhilFree 21:12, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I hate to keep harping on this article when I can't do much to correct it for awhile yet, but I have two more thoughts it would probably be good to get on the record, and get comments on.
First, it's not accurate to say Benito Juárez was president until April 10, 1864, then Maximilian was emperor until June 19, 1867, and then Juárez resumed the presidency. Juárez was president from January 16, 1858 to July 18, 1872 without interruption. He was recognized as such by many Mexicans, perhaps a majority, and he controled parts of the country the entire time. He never left the country. His government was also recognized as the only legitimate one by some foreign governments, including that of the United States.
I'm not suggesting that Maximilian was not emperor. Clearly he was, but Juárez was simultaneously president. The Republic of Mexico never ceased to exist, and Juárez was its constititutional president.
Something similar was going on even before the arrival of Maximilian. The conservatives after Comonfort's coup (Zuloaga, Robles Pezuela amd Miramón) were presidents simultaneously with Juárez, who was the constitutional president throughout. This was the time of the War of the Reform, a full-blown civil war which the Liberals under Juárez won. Including Zuloaga, Robles Pezuela and Miramón as Mexican presidents is about the same as including Jefferson Davis as a U.S. president. I'm not opposed to their inclusion, though, because that is traditional in Mexican lists.
Juárez's first term, from January 16, 1858 to March 1, 1861 (during the War of the Reform), is not given here at all.
I also strongly suspect that many of the party labels in the table are misleading. I think at least some of them refer to tendencies rather than organized parties, but I'll need to do some reading to verify that. In any case, Zuloaga was not a liberal by any definition, including party affiliation, political tendency, or personal outlook.
--Rbraunwa 05:45, 5 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I've been working to straighten out the presidential terms and dates on the list, but there is still a long way to go. Here's what I've done:
I compared five sources to establish the most likely dates for the presidential terms I've looked at:
These all seem to be independent lists, in that no two of them always agree. There is a lot of disagreement, in fact, not only in the dates but to a lesser extent in what terms and presidents make the lists. But they are all good sources. I listed them in the order I assigned weight to them, with Enciclopedia de México being the most reliable in my opinion. But if two or more sources agreed, I gave them extra weight, regardless of which sources they were. I also used internal evidence when I could (other dates about what happened in a presidential term that could be used to decide between possibilities, or other clues). And I did some other Internet searches, although it's hard to establish whether Internet sources are independent, or just copies of one of my other sources.
In any case, there was still some interpretation required. I found the best dates (in my opinion), but I don't think every date is precisely accurate. That's a problem I don't know how to get around, but I believe my list, as far as I've gotten with it, is probably better than any of my sources. I have found dates that are unquestionably erroneous, and I think I've found some of those in all the sources.
Here's how to tell whether I've evaluated a date in the list. I found that the date formats were all of the form October 27 1833 (without the comma). The ones I evaluated and made a decision about now have a comma inserted: October 27, 1833. This doesn't show up when you view the article, only when you edit it. Whenever I made a change in the list, I made the corresponding change in the president's article. There is still a lot of work to do, but it's a start anyway.
There may be some problems maintaining this. It's only natural that someone coming across a slightly different date would think that the one on our list is an error. As I say, that's no doubt true in some cases, but I would argue that my changes shouldn't be modified without good reason and supporting sources. That's the only way to try to get a coherent list, I think.
--Rbraunwa 17:25, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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BetacommandBot (talk) 18:32, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Image:Valentin Gomez Farias.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 11:44, 21 January 2008 (UTC)hi —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.44.33.122 (talk) 21:35, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
This is an extremely misleading (or perhaps "mis-headed") section.
Barrigan was no longer in office when he died, and... technically, neither was Madero. Obregon was not yet president, and Carranza more or less over-stayed his term, and was not legitimately president (we can quibble over that one). To say that Benito Juarez "was the only Mexican president to die of a non-violent cause while in office" is terribly misleading, and suggestive that violent deaths are the norm, not the exception. By my calculation, Juarez was the only President to die in office, and Carranza the only one to commit suicide (if that's what happened) or to be shot while holding the title of President... but that's it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richmx2 (talk • contribs) 02:06, 6 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The wording on the table row for President Álvaro Obregón needs a re-write. It states his term of office was 1920-24, that he died in 1928 (4 years after his term ended). Then, the text states he was the only president-elect of Mexico assassinated BEFORE taking office (emphasis mine). My reading of the full article on him says he was re-elected after a term he was out of office but assassinated before he could take office.The comment column creates confusion w/its current wording, I think. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.126.66.156 (talk) 15:17, 2 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Accoding to the cronological order there are 58 presidents of mexico but the mexican government explains there are 65 moreover in the page List of presidents of Mexico by longevity there says there are 7 living presidents and 58 deaseaced in total 65.So i am confused are there 65 or 58 presidents. Please answer as soon as possible. Elvatomasvato (talk) 06:29, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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