User talk:Cg2p0B0u8m/Archive 2
Page contents not supported in other languages.
I am gradually gearing up to put the Offenbach article forward for FAC. You, I and other interested editors have had extensive discussions on the talk page, and I should be most grateful if you would, at a time convenient to you, check to see if there are any points unresolved that worry you or seem to you need further attention before we take the article to FAC. Tim riley (talk) 23:08, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
Excellent new article! Most interesting, and beautifully illustrated, too. Tim riley (talk) 13:20, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
Hi. When you recently edited Jean-Paul Fouchécourt, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Les Arts Florissants (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 11:08, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
Wild and Charlton 2005, p. 333, says the 1874 production at the OC was in 4 acts (as does Robert Letellier 2010, p. 361). I think maybe we should mention Wolff's information in the footnote, as it may be an error. I'll make the change and hope it will be OK. [Update: the 5-act version was on 29 November 1889, according to Wolff, but Wild and Charlton say it was given in 3 acts, and a 5-act version not until 13 March 1901 (but with cuts in acts 4 & 5). The 5-act version close to Gounod's original intentions was Hahn's in 1939, on which everyone seems to agree.] --Robert.Allen (talk) 07:36, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Well, Monsieur Bernard was rather grumpy that night! I think the important thing is how much music was performed rather than the division into tableaux or acts. From this review it seems that the only cuts from the basic full score (assuming we know what that is) were mainly in the first tableau of Act IV. One phrase does not make sense to me: “sauf le grand air de Mireille: Trahir Vincent, qui du deuxième acte où il était a été reporté au quatrième, où il arrive beaucoup moins bien” – this seems odd – this major air was moved from the 2nd to 4th act where it would have been placed next to another solo (Heureux petit berger) and the Crau scene, unless they were cut (although he mentions later the ‘longueur’ of the Crau scene*) – I wonder if he is simply adhering to the original five-act format because 90% of the music was played, whereas Wolff and Charlton have another source which shows that from what remained from the first tableau of the old Act IV to the end of the opera was played as one act?. He mentions a cut in the Act 2 finale on page 362 middle of second paragraph. It says in the next paragraph that Carvalho did sing the awful waltz song (I assume it replaced Trahir Vincent in Act 2?). It also says that Galli-Marié sang the shepherd boy as well as Taven, but if much of that tableau was cut, she would have lost her Chanson and have hardly anything to sing. It’s a bit of a mess! (*interesting comment about preferring David…) Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 11:12, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
I couldn't agree more. It sounds like the autograph got modified with each of the early productions, making it rather difficult to know for sure what was used when. Does Huebner mention the waltz song? I was looking but didn't find it in his book. [Update: I see it's mentioned as in Act 1 and footnoted as p. 153 in our article. (How quickly we forget. You added the info, I added the page no. and then promptly forgot it.) As you say, Huebner doesn't seem to mention which act. It's probably not surprising we aren't sure. I have the video and the Plasson recording, and it's omitted in both. (I don't have the Büsser score, but the video and recording probably use Büsser.) I know the piece because it's on Dessay's recital album.] BTW, its's also in the first act in the 3-act Italian/English score at IMSLP, presumably for English performances. Did you happen to come across anything else in his book concerning the 1874 production? I've only noticed that one sentence, but I usually am skipping around a lot when I read it. (Plus, his index is not the greatest, and the book is not even "snippet view" at Google Books, so one can't search it that way either.) --Robert.Allen (talk) 03:47, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
I think it most noble of you to plough through the Fauré piano music article despite its lack of interest to you. Bless you! I shall enjoy following up your suggestions. Now, Monsieur, are you willing to be co-nominee of Jacques Offenbach if I put him up as as Featured Article candidate? We've done all the hard work, together with three or four other dedicated contributors, and I think the old boy's time has come. I hope you will consent to be co-nom, because your contribution to the article has been of incalculable value. Regards. Tim riley (talk) 13:48, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Hi. When you recently edited Die Rheinnixen, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Bingen (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 10:50, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
Hi. When you recently edited Jane Glover, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Stephen Oliver (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 10:20, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
I'd be delighted to work with you on the article. I have Canarina's biography, and a good history of the LSO, but not much else, apart from Grove. Tim riley (talk) 14:19, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
In answer to your question, there is a lot of overlap between Mousnier and Canarina but it is a serious book and he is worth quoting from. Doris’s book is a good read although some people have said that it is not very reliable/objective.On the first section in your sandbox, here are some superficial comments:
I think we could amend and expand the third sentence to focus on his mother’s musical ability/instrument etc. We should mention somewhere his siblings and relations (brother Henri was an actor in Paris) and some information about those that died in the concentration camps. Maybe this would be lower down.
I think it is worth mentioning that he attended the premiere of Franck’s symphony and that (with the Geloso) he played for Grieg (there is a photo).
We need to check the position on children.
Sorry for the short reply, but I will try to get something typed soon.
Somewhere we should mention the fact that, like Boult, Walter, Klemperer and Toscanini, he split the firsts and seconds; this would be important when discussing the ‘Monteux sound’. (ref = Boult A. The Art of Conducting: IV. Arranging Orchestras. In: Boult on Music. Toccata Press, 1983, p146). Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 20:57, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
The article is not very strong on images on Monteux. Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 21:06, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
Key P V R. Pierre Key's Musical Who's Who. Pierre Key, Inc, New York, 1931, states: "married 3 times; 3 children: Jean (musician, Casino de Paris) by 1st wife; Denise and Claude by 2nd wife" Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 22:56, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
I have copied our exchange, above, to the Monteux article's talk page. I think other interested editors should be able to see our preliminary discussions. Meanwhile, I have more or less finished my first pass at a complete overhaul. How do you want to take this forward? I should prefer it if you took possession of the article for a while and made any additions, deletions or amendments you wanted, before we jointly put it up for peer review. Alternatively I could put it up as it stands for peer review, where you could add your comments, but that, I think, is a less attractive option. Please let me know how you'd prefer to proceed. Tim riley (talk) 17:58, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
We need a strategy for taking the maître to PR/FAC. Let me know when you're happy with the text of the article and we can move things on. (No hurry) Tim riley (talk) 21:32, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
I have closed the peer review (having gratefully followed up your tip about early recordings) and now have the article up for Featured Article Candidate here. If you care to look in and comment it would be esteemed a favour. Tim riley (talk) 11:51, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
I have emerged unscathed from my recent FAC for an English politician, and am now ready to take Monteux to peer review. Unless you sternly forbid it I'll put it forward for PR in both our names tomorrow and we can see what comments our Wiki-colleagues care to offer us. Tim riley (talk) 18:09, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
Crisco1492 and Wehwalt have completed their peer reviews. I suggest that first of all I go through them over the next few days, (i) dealing with the non-controversial suggestions, and (ii) flagging up more difficult ones where you and I need to agree a joint position. I'll then hand over to you to check that you agree with what I've done about (i) and to give your views on (ii). Does that sound like a workable modus operandi? Tim riley (talk) 18:11, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
Me again. Sorry for my silence throughout July: I have been away, with no internet access. I'll crank myself up and get back to our Monteux project over the next few days. I am most grateful for your forbearance. Tim riley (talk) 16:43, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
I am sending this note to Wikipedians with whom I have most closely collaborated over the last six years or so. After pondering hard during a month's wiki-break in July I have sadly decided to withdraw fully from contributing. I have been worn down by continual carping, sniping and belittling from a wearisome few (you know the sort of people I refer to); the joy has gone out of taking part in this wonderful enterprise. I should be more resilient, but alas it's finally got to me.
Working with you has been a pleasure and a privilege: I count myself fortunate to have had such colleagues. My warmest wishes go with you for the future. I shall be happy to do any research, copy-editing, fact-checking etc you may ever feel inclined to ask me to do – but safely offline.
I am painfully aware that I am letting you down rather badly by abandoning Wikipedia while we were jointly working on Pierre Monteux, but it is already a top-notch article, and we can both be proud of it. As to getting Offenbach to FA, there are several editors who will, I think, be willing to take the lead in due course.
With my very best wishes,
Tim. (Tim riley (talk) 16:13, 10 August 2012 (UTC))
Just to let you know that The Rite of Spring, which you recently helped improve via the peer review, has now been nominated at FAC. Any further observations will be welcome there. I have followed the PR consensus, and removed the substandard soundfile; it is possible that this decision will be challenged, but we shall see. I have had some very useful suggestions offline from Tim, which have been incorporated, so his influence lives on. Brianboulton (talk) 22:26, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
operas and performers | |
Thank you for quality articles on less known operas and their performers, including Pierre Monteux, - you are an awesome Wikipedian! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:08, 10 September 2012 (UTC) |
That’s very kind of you. I may have a few more less known ones to come, not just from Offenbach. Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 12:55, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
As you were Tim's co-worker on this article, are you intending to proceed with it towards a FA nomination? I ask, because I recently mentiond to Tim that I would be prepared to steer it through the process if he so wished and he is agreeable to this, but your view is clearly important. If the article does go forward to FAC, it should be under Tim's name as main editor. Brianboulton (talk) 18:20, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
I deleted the Berlioz-Colonne information because initially it lacked a source - the apparent reference turned out to be another uncited statement. Now that you have properly sourced it, there is no problem. I have slightly altered the wording to provide link to Édouard Colonne who is otherwise not identified.
On the "Stravinsky's representative" issue, I am not so sure. The statement that I deleted reads: "Leading up to the 1913 London performances, Diaghilev's authority was challenged when Monteux declared that he was "Stravinsky's representative" in matters related to Rite of Spring." You say in your edit summary that this "sheds more light specifically on M’s character: standing up to Diaghilev..."; that is one interpretation, but not the only one. Without going into more detail, surely unjustified, the statement is inconclusive; whatever Monteux's meaning, it did not destroy his relationship with Diaghilev, who continued to employ him.
It is quite common, when an article is being prepared for FAC, for valid information that is not central to the topic to be omitted or deleted; I do it to my own articles ruthlessly. Of course, there will be differences of view about what should be included and what left out. If you feel most strongly that this statement should be in, then by all means reinstate it, but let's be careful to remain discriminating about what is included in what is, after all, a summary article. Brianboulton (talk) 16:31, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Several of the 22 footnotes are only vaguely connected with Monteux, if at all. The following, I think, could be deleted without any detriment to the article:
If you think that any others could be lost without damage, please indicate. Could you reply either here or on my talkpage, rather than on the article's talk, as I missed your earlier note there. Brianboulton (talk) 16:32, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
A brief (and one-off) sortie from my self-imposed exile to say how pleased I am to see Monteux promoted to Featured Article, and to thank you once again for your extensive contributions to it. Having jumped ship, I am grateful to Brianboulton for steering the vessel home in his accustomed masterly manner (and in record time, too). My warmest greetings to you both. Tim riley (talk) 15:04, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi. You may have noticed that I created the Fourestier article recently (as part of the Monteux FAC). Yesterday I came upon the list of Music Directors of the Opéra-Comique and see that Frigara was in charge from 1925 to 1932, whereas I have Fourestier as principal conductor for 1927-32. I sort of thought that the principal conductor would also be Music Director, but perhaps I'm wrong? Feel free to enlighten me! Best. --GuillaumeTell 11:38, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
This is a note to let the main editors of Carmen know that the article will be appearing as today's featured article on March 3, 2013. You can view the TFA blurb at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/March 3, 2013. If you prefer that the article appear as TFA on a different date, or not at all, please ask featured article director Raul654 (talk · contribs) or his delegates Dabomb87 (talk · contribs), Gimmetoo (talk · contribs), and Bencherlite (talk · contribs), or start a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Today's featured article/requests. If the previous blurb needs tweaking, you can change it—following the instructions at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/instructions. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. The blurb as it stands now is below:
Carmen is an opera in four acts by the French composer Georges Bizet, first performed on 3 March 1875. It was not at first particularly successful and Bizet knew nothing of its later success as he died before its initial run was concluded. It tells the story of the downfall of Don José, a naive soldier seduced by the fiery gypsy Carmen (first played by Célestine Galli-Marié, pictured in costume). José abandons his childhood sweetheart and deserts from his military duties, yet loses Carmen's love to the glamorous toreador Escamillo after which José kills her in a jealous rage. The depictions of proletarian life, immorality and lawlessness, and the tragic outcome, broke new ground in French opera. After the premiere most reviews were critical. Carmen initially gained its reputation outside France, and was not revived in Paris until 1883; thereafter it rapidly acquired celebrity at home and abroad, and continues to be one of the most frequently performed operas. The music of Carmen has been widely acclaimed for its brilliance of melody, harmony, atmosphere and orchestration, and for the skill with which Bizet represented musically the emotions and suffering of his characters. (Full article...)
UcuchaBot (talk) 23:01, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
This is a note to let the main editors of Carmen know that the article will be appearing as today's featured article on April 6, 2013. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. If you prefer that the article appear as TFA on a different date, or not at all, please ask featured article director Raul654 (talk · contribs) or one of his delegates (Dabomb87 (talk · contribs), Gimmetoo (talk · contribs), and Bencherlite (talk · contribs)), or start a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Today's featured article/requests. You can view the TFA blurb at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/April 6, 2013. If it needs tweaking, or if it needs rewording to match improvements to the article between now and its main page appearance, please edit it, following the instructions at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/instructions. The blurb as it stands now is below:
Carmen is an opera in four acts by the French composer Georges Bizet, first performed on 3 March 1875. It was not at first particularly successful and Bizet knew nothing of its later success as he died before its initial run was concluded. The opera tells the story of the downfall of Don José, a naive soldier seduced by the fiery gypsy Carmen (first played by Célestine Galli-Marié, pictured in costume). José abandons his childhood sweetheart and deserts from his military duties, yet loses Carmen's love to the glamorous toreador Escamillo after which José kills her in a jealous rage. The depictions of proletarian life, immorality and lawlessness, and the tragic outcome, broke new ground in French opera, and after the premiere most reviews were critical. Carmen initially gained its reputation outside France, and was not revived in Paris until 1883; thereafter it rapidly acquired celebrity at home and abroad, and continues to be one of the most frequently performed operas. The music of Carmen has been widely acclaimed for its brilliance of melody, harmony, atmosphere and orchestration, and for the skill with which Bizet represented musically the emotions and suffering of his characters. (Full article...)
UcuchaBot (talk) 23:02, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Afternoon of a Faun (Nijinsky), you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Assyrian (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 19:24, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
What a pleasing coincidence that you and have both posted a new article on an Ashton ballet today! Yours is excellent. Mine is here. I think perhaps geography makes this forthcoming event a non-starter for you, but it would be excellent if you could be there. Tim riley (talk) 18:33, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited André Balbon, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Angélique (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 11:31, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
Hi Cg2p0B0u8m, Just wanted to say, that's a very nice addition to the "20th century and beyond" section. Thanks! --Robert.Allen (talk) 03:17, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Dido and Aeneas discography, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page William Christie (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 10:55, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Jérôme Deschamps, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Don Kent (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 13:05, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
Hi, I'm writing to members who participated in the March 2013 discussions about the possibility of developing an opera infobox. We now have a reasonably stable and usable box with examples of how it would look in articles at Template:Infobox opera and a new discussion re its potential addition to the project's Article Guide as an option for opera articles. The discussion is at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Opera#Opera Infobox update. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 08:13, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
The Original Barnstar | |
Having several times stumbled across articles where you had contributed valuable content, I thought your efforts should be acknowledged. Edwardx (talk) 21:39, 14 July 2013 (UTC) |
Thank you ; I will keep trying. Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 22:43, 19 July 2013 (UTC)