Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)

I have always been too scared to ask this, but I can't stop wondering. Why do {{main}} and {{further}} use two different modules? Are they really that different in implementation that we needed two different modules for them?

Follow-up question which I suspect I have answers to but don't really, why do hatnotes even have modules? You would think a bit of text and some special formatting wouldn't require much work that couldn't be accomplished through conventional wikicode, but maybe these templates do something more that I just don't fully understand? –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 03:31, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

There does need to be a module somewhere along the track, to support the fact that templates can take an arbitrary number of parameters. As for why each hatnote template uses its own module, there's no good reason for it, and I tried to TfD the specific-template ones in 2018 and 2019 as part of a broader crusade against overuse of Lua, but ran in to a lack of consensus. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 03:35, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

@MJL: Hi, I'm a major author of a lot of hatnote module code. {{Main}} needs a bit of special code to handle the case where it's used on category pages, where it has different output. If we could establish consensus to force category pages to use {{cat main}} or similar, and thereby removed the special case, then I'd happily transition {{main}} to use Module:Labelled list hatnote, which I wrote to standardize the behaviour of many simple hatnote templates. {{Nihiltres |talk |edits}} 21:46, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

@Nihiltres: If I understand it right, currently {{Main}} needs to act like {{cat main}} in category-space (which makes me wonder why we even have {{cat main}}..). If we switch {{main}} to Module:Labelled list hatnote, that needs to get changed. That seems reasonable, so I guess the question is where should we do that RFC? This is assuming that Module:Labelled list hatnote can't be changed to efficiently make {{main}} output something different in category-space without effecting {{further}}. –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 22:25, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

It was previously attempted by TfD, which … wasn't quite the right venue, but appears to be Pppery's favourite. I would start with a discussion on the talk pages of both (probably primarily on Template talk:Main with a message pointing people there from Template talk:Cat main) and solicit primarily objections. My expectation is that we'll get some grumbling about the status quo or leaving functionality in place, but that most people would agree that they should be separate templates and the current overlap removed by simplifying {{main}}. From there, getting rid of the "main" module in favour of the generic "labelled list hatnote" one becomes practically a G6 speedy, because a result for narrowing the template scope is nearly as good as a TfD for the module in practice. {{Nihiltres |talk |edits}} 06:39, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

@MJL: I've started a discussion at Template talk:Main as suggested in my previous comment. {{Nihiltres |talk |edits}} 17:04, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

I'm trying to use {{Mapframe}} here. However, when I click on the map, the text along the bottom turns into Map of Pomona College's campus[130][131] .mw-parser-output .div-col{margin-top:0.3em;column-width:30em}.mw-parser-output...

Additionally, when I try to add a reference to the |description= field for any of the markers, it spits out things like '"`UNIQ--ref-000000C1-QINU`"' (click on one of the teal icons in the northwest corner to see the issue).

Is whatever is causing these bugs a known issue? Is there any way around it? I was able to find a workaround for {{abbr}} by using <abbr title="Information Technology">IT</abbr> instead of {{abbr|IT|Information Technology}}, but I'm not sure if anything like that can be done for references, especially when they're SFNs. Help?

(I also have an additional mapframe question here if anyone here knows it well.) {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 04:33, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

I recall there being a bug for the first one but I can't find it. I would recommend filing a new one under the Maps and TemplateStyles projects on Phab. It's not TemplateStyles fault, it's whatever lightbox implementation Maps are using not dealing gracefully with <style> elements and their contents, but tagging it for other just makes it obvious.

I'm not really surprised the second exists. In general, when you see a UNIQQINU pattern, it's a strip marker. Sometimes there's a limitation in the MW software can handle some input and sometimes we didn't code things properly on our side. That should start with a talk page message for the template/module to see if local template editors can see why that would be.

I don't really understand what issue you thought you had with the third that you "worked around". Izno (talk) 22:43, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

(Now that I look, I see one directly pertinent to the strip marker issue and <ref> specifically.) Izno (talk) 22:44, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

Okay, I created phab:T292598 for the first one. For the second, ɱ appears to be active at the module talk; would you perhaps be able to help? {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 00:31, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

@Sdkb: - it seems that mapframe doesn't support inline references (except in captions, but you have the minor display issue at the bottom, like you mentioned). If I were you, I would move the map to its own page, like {{Ohio Statehouse map}} or {{George Floyd protests map}}, and there you can list out what is sourced for what, without dealing with display issues. Like how an image's file description page has attribution, same deal. ɱ (talk) 16:05, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

When viewing a section of the Wikipedia Reference desk using a mobile device with a narrow screen, such as the page https://www.search.com.vn/wiki/en/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Language, the introductory parts (How can I get my question answered? / Select a section:) do not fit and can only be viewed and accessed by awkward horizontal scrolling. Is there a way to make this less awkward? (I suppose there is a way to make the page display adapt to the viewing device, but this is not my cup of tea.)  --Lambiam 08:21, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

I've created a sandbox version to work on improving this. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 09:40, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

How about this version ? Its not too pretty, but it's a start. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 14:38, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

I'm not getting any horizontal scrolling on my phone with that version, but there is a bit of horizontal overflow when using Firefox's responsive design mode with the iPad preset, which isn't present in the live version. I don't have a real iPad or anything with a similar screen size to test this, though. – Rummskartoffel 21:15, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

found it, was the input fields trying to be wider than possible. Thx for the report. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 09:06, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

@TheDJ: Thanks. I can't test it on an iPad but it is fine on my phone. Can you install it? I could try but fear I'll muck up things in the process.  --Lambiam 22:37, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

i'll install it somewhere next week. I'm gonna need a bit of assistance in deploying it, because some parts are protected pages but i'll find someone for that. In the mean time, I also worked on Wikipedia:Reference desk, Wikipedia:Questions, Wikipedia:Village pump and Wikipedia:Community portal (in progress). —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 22:42, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

 Done —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 20:08, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

Does anyone know why authority control isn't showing up at the bottom of Godric of Finchale's article? Best – Aza24 (talk) 21:55, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Because the article's Wikidata item doesn't have any IDs that {{authority control}} knows about. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 22:04, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

I just added the VIAF and GND to the associated Wikidata item, so the template appears now. Vahurzpu (talk) 20:24, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

I'm using a 13-inch macBook with latest version of macOS Big Sur. While using the newer look of the site, I see the live clock gadget pushed out by a tiny margin in the upper-right collapsible menu. To put this another way, I can see the hour hand and barely the minute hand but not the seconds hand. I'll provide an image if necessary. --George Ho (talk) 02:56, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

@George Ho: The hour, minute and second hands are three revolving pointers on an analog clock face. I guess you don't mean hands but the numbers on a digital clock. I guess "the newer look of the site" means you have disabled "Use Legacy Vector" at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering. I see the problem with numbers there. It's caused by width: 6em in MediaWiki:Gadget-UTCLiveClock.css which is copied from mw:MediaWiki:Gadget-UTCLiveClock.css. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:40, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

Pinging Mr. Stradivarius who made the CSS in 2017. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:46, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

The below in your CSS is a temporary fix. It looks bad if "Use Legacy Vector" is enabled. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:57, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

.skin-vector #utcdate {width: 10em !important;margin-left: 0em !important;}

I'll await Mr. S's response. Meanwhile, I found out that the same issue occurs on an iPad mini while using Desktop view. George Ho (talk) 05:29, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

The problem is not so much the CSS that I wrote, but rather that the UTC clock gadget never supported the newer Vector skin in the first place. It needs to be updated to support the new Vector (and also Minerva and Timeless, for that matter). There are some suggestions for how this might be done on the talk page. Also, it might be worth looking into the CSS solution that they are using on the Russian Wikipedia, which looks like it will alleviate some of the problems with calculating widths. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 03:32, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

If I attempt to create an article at a title like Cotesworth P. Smith, I get a notice above the edit box indicating that "There is a draft for this article at Draft:Cotesworth P. Smith". However, if I go to a title like Paint mixing (currently a redirect to Primary color) or Climate change in Pennsylvania (currently a redirect to Renewable energy law in Pennsylvania), I get no such notice about the existence of Draft:Paint mixing or Draft:Climate change in Pennsylvania. Similarly, if I go to edit a disambiguation page like Dramatization or War zone, I get no notice that Draft:Dramatization or Draft:War zone exist as possible WP:DABCONCEPT pages.

I am concerned that an editor who has the idea to write an article at a title currently serving as a redirect or holding a disambiguation page or the like may miss the existence of a working draft for this purpose. Can notices be added to the edit windows for existing pages where a draft exists? BD2412 T 03:27, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

@BD2412: Edit request filed at Template talk:Editnotices/Namespace/Main#Protected edit request on 1 October 2021, for making the message appear when the article is a redirect or disambiguation page. – SD0001 (talk) 06:29, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

Excellent, thanks. BD2412 T 03:09, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

Hi. Is there a way to remove all of those buttons by using js/css? Hộp cát (talk) 05:17, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

@Hộp cát: To hide the buttons only (not the adjacent text or links), use

#wpSaveWidget,#wpPreviewWidget,#wpDiffWidget {  display: none;}

in Special:MyPage/common.css. You can still activate the buttons by using Alt+⇧ Shift+S, Alt+⇧ Shift+P or Alt+⇧ Shift+V respectively. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 09:23, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

Nice, thanks. Hộp cát (talk) 10:37, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

@Hộp cát, why do you want to do that? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:57, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

When I noticed a bug elsewhere, Xaosflux suggested I take notice if I see others and approach the developer directly; I can't see any such (one) developer for this Template. The problem is it doesn't go all the way to the top. As someone mentioned recently, it's used on The Teahouse and the Template wiki-page itself. It misses the top two lines of visible text (on 16:9 display at 100%). Thanks.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 00:34, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

That seems impossible without making it skin/interface-dependent. I just compared all elements that are at the top and have IDs in Legacy Vector and mobile view, and there was no overlap. Nardog (talk) 02:07, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

I guess I gotta wonder why anyone would use that template. Each time I click to go to the other end of a page that uses that template it adds an entry into the browser's history so if I click the up or down several times and then use the browser's back button to get back to where I started, I get the entire sequence played in reverse. Doesn't seem like the best or most friendly user interface to me...

—Trappist the monk (talk) 14:32, 2 October 2021 (UTC)