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Latest comment: 1 year ago8 comments4 people in discussion
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Lightburst (talk) 03:59, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
Comment: i am conflicted over whether or not to include the actual nine words, as i feel that omitting them makes the hook feel very much like clickbait, but i also do not think 200 characters is enough to provide the proper context for the remark.also, i wasn't sure if the photo i provided shows up well enough at that small of a size, so i also used {{CSS image crop}} to see how a closer crop might look. i also tried the same for a different photo in the article. the results can be seen at right. i don't know which image would work best, but if you prefer one of the cropped ones, i can submit a request at the graphics lab.
Created by dying (talk). Self-nominated at 20:30, 2 March 2023 (UTC).
@Dying: I think the hook is flawed - I like the 9 words part, but calling it a very powerful speech when none of the RS does is where I see an issue. Our article states that, "U.K. education minister Nadhim Zahawi called it a very powerful speech". A single bureaucrat. I request some additional hooks. The article has the correct inline citations and is neutral. It is both new and long enough and the QPQ is done. The copyright detector only alerts to direct quotes. The images are clear and in the public domain. Bruxton (talk) 23:51, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
More hooks? You got it:
ALT1 : ... that Biden's speech outlining the task for this generation was overshadowed by a nine-word comment that was apparently ad-libbed? ALT2 : ... that nine apparently ad-libbed words in one of Biden's speeches in Europe garnered more press coverage than the rest of his trip combined and distracted from the message of the rest of his speech? ALT3 : ... that at the Royal Castle in Warsaw, President Biden delivered a speech that included nine words of an apparent ad-lib, which distracted from his message? I like ALT1 best. ALT3 is closest to the original. Radzy0 (talk) 04:00, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
good point, Bruxton. thanks for catching that. following theleekycauldron's summary of the standard regarding the use of quoted words on dyk, i added "described as" to alt0a below, since i assume calling the speech "very powerful" is neither negative nor unduly positive. (also, i think most people commenting on the speech had the same general idea as zahawi did, as the problem was that the nine apparently ad-libbed words were a bit too powerful.)
alt0a: ... that, near the end of a speech in Warsaw in 2022 described as "very powerful", Joe Biden (pictured) said nine apparently ad-libbed words that distracted from his message?
i had originally added the quoted words to give a quick description of the speech that the second part of the hook could then contrast, but now that i am reviewing the hook, i think the following alternative could also work.
alt0b: ... that, near the end of a speech in Warsaw in 2022 framing the war in Ukraine as a fight between autocracy and democracy, Joe Biden (pictured) said nine apparently ad-libbed words that distracted from his message?
currently, i think i prefer alt0b over alt0a, but it is 196 characters long, so alt0a is there in case alt0b's length seems unwarranted.Radzy0, i also like your alt1, though have reworded it in alt1a below because "task of this generation" is actually a phrase that biden had used in the speech, and presumably should not be used in wikivoice. (i assume that, because of the way alt1a is worded, the hook fully attributes the phrase.) some of the words were also moved around to accommodate the "(pictured)" so that it would not follow a possessive, and "nine" is being spelt out to conform with mos:spell09. also, i don't think biden actually outlined the task in the speech, so i replaced "outlining" with "addressing", though i think "describing" could also be appropriate. (biden raised three points that could be interpreted as an outline for a plan of action, but the source from the guardian i cited with respect to this phrase interprets the "task of this generation" to be the last of the three, rather than all of the three.)
alt0b is actually pretty similar to the alt1x hooks, since the "task of this generation" that biden refers to is the fight against autocracy. also, i am not sure if a reader will understand, from the wording of alt1 or alt1a alone, that the nine-word comment was a part of the speech (rather than, e.g., a response made by someone else, or a follow-up comment by biden himself), so i have added an explanation in alt1b below.
i agree with you that alt2 and alt3 are somewhat weaker than alt1, as i don't think they provide any information that the description of the nine-word comment could then contrast.by the way, the alt0x hooks were worded to include "Warsaw" and "2022" to better conform with mos:egg, and because biden has made other notable speeches in warsaw, and other notable speeches in 2022. (a notable speech in warsaw biden made in 2023 also frames the war in ukraine as a fight between autocracy and democracy, though it does not use the words "task of this generation".) after reviewing alt1, i am now not sure if it is necessary to mention either the city or the year, so am open to workshopping any of the proposed hooks to either include or remove these details as appropriate. dying (talk) 08:17, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
I tweaked ALT1a it comes up at 173 words characters and is succinct. Biden has been in polictcs for a half of a century and so the year is important. I think the city is equally important.
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