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Big quotes in the Comments on Hamas, Hezbollah and the Israel–Hamas war section
Latest comment: 7 months ago4 comments2 people in discussion
I think the big quote by Chaim Levinson is utterly unjustifiable. He is not a notable commentator. His link is red. His quote is longer than Butler's own quote above it, which is itself rather long, and it is mostly not even on-topic for this article. Of course, Levinson is perfectly at liberty to use Butler's comments as a jumping off point for his own opinions about other things. Writers do that all the time. It's just not appropriate for us to quote a huge chunk of it here. The comments about use of the word "colonialism" are clearly a criticism of the way this is used by very many people, not just Butler. The extent to which this is specifically relevant to Butler could be summarised in one sentence and the rest omitted. --DanielRigal (talk) 14:53, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
I've cut it down in a way that retains the substance of his objection but omits all the rest. I also fixed the latinised spelling of his name to match that used by Haaretz in their URL. Are we happy with this? --DanielRigal (talk) 15:17, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
Yes well done. What do you think of the seemingly meaningless quote from Die Zeit: "(...) countless the same thing goes on for paragraphs: Nothing can justify the violence, and you still have to see the violence of the occupying power, Israel. It becomes clear that she (understandably) doesn’t know where to think next"? I don't have access to the source so cannot verify the quote. Burrobert (talk) 16:07, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
I presume it makes sense in context but, as presented here, it doesn't make much sense at all. I'm not sure what to make of it. Maybe it is complaining that they repeat themself without suggesting a plausible way forward. If so, that's true of pretty much everybody talking about Israel/Palestine and offers no worthwhile specific insight into Butler. If anybody can clarify it then that would be great but, if not, I guess we might as well just remove it. --DanielRigal (talk) 16:51, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
Wiki Education assignment: Graphic Design History
Latest comment: 5 months ago1 comment1 person in discussion
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2023 and 15 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Micklepickle01 (article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Ktrachsel01 (talk) 01:08, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
Non-Binary AND lesbian at the same time?
Latest comment: 12 days ago6 comments6 people in discussion
Since Judith Butler describes herself/themself as non-binary she/they technically cannot be lesbian at the same time. Either Butler is a woman or she has no gender affiliation. The fact that J.B. remains to be a biological woman seems to be irrelevant nowadays since self-identification beats biology. According to this reasoning the tag "lesbian" and all mentions thereof must be removed. (provocative, I know, but I am open to debate) Schmutzman (talk) 10:57, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
There are plenty of non-binary people who still use the term lesbian for themselves, and plenty of lesbians who are also attracted to non-binary people. As editors, it's not our job to police someone's labels. We just need to follow the sources. Hist9600 (talk) 15:21, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
They also use the she pronoun so that could solve the logical contradiction. 82.36.70.45 (talk) 17:16, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
No sexuality excludes non-binary people. Non-binary isn't a single third gender. There are demigender and multigender experiences that include connection to womanhood, for example. When Judith Butler came out as n-b, they didn't say they stopped being lesbian. --MikutoHtalk! 01:36, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Stupid question here: Is wikipedia about informing the readers or pandering to the person who the article is about? If Trump considers himself to be an honest person who always tells the truth ... is that what wikipedia will label him? It is a label and like the poster above me wrote "it's not our job to police someone's labels". This attitude just does not make sense because it leaves the door open for misinformation. 2001:871:22B:616:B014:77AC:1B45:ECF9 (talk) 21:35, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
One is always saddled with the burden of evaluating the reliability and relevance of a source. There is no formula for truth. No system or policy is immune from misinformation. Could you help me to understand what portions of the article you believe are "pandering?" Is there an source being cited for the content of this article you deem to be unreliable? If so how? 50.120.71.37 (talk) 20:18, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 December 2023
Latest comment: 5 months ago2 comments2 people in discussion
The section on Butler's comments on Israel-Hamas conflicts need to be edited extensively. In its current form, it lacks a clear depiction and history of Butler's scholarship on the issues and portrays them in a non-objective light. The last paragraph also appears to be directly translated from German and misgenders Butler several times.
In the section on the Caturner2001 (talk) 05:51, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 06:50, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 January 2024
Latest comment: 2 months ago3 comments3 people in discussion
In the notes of this article, it is indicated that this article will use they/them pronouns for Butler for consistency. Currently she/her pronouns are used for Butler in the Israel-Hamas political action section. Specifically, this occurs in the sentence, “After the start of the 2023 Israel–Hamas war, Butler published an essay entitled "The Compass of Mourning", in which she argued that Hamas' attacks should be seen in the context of the "horrors of the last seventy years".“ Can someone change the "she" here to "they"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gvarab13 (talk • contribs)
I have corrected that. I'm not sure what, if anything, we should do with the Die Zeit quote though. It seems to have been translated from German rather poorly if the phrasing "countless the same thing goes on for paragraphs" is anything to go by. Maybe somebody who speaks German can look at that? --DanielRigal (talk) 23:25, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
"... paragraph after paragraph, always the same thing: Violence cannot be justified by anything, and yet one must see the violence of the occupying power Israel. It becomes clear that she (understandably) does not know where to direct {focus?} her thoughts anymore."
The article is behind a paywall. So I could only read the quote from the German wikipedia site and there it does not become more understandable than the version I have given you now.
In German they use the word she. I would consider it a misquote to not do so. We should also not pander to self declared labels. Nobody in their right mind would respect Trump's labels of himself and enforce them in an wikipedia article. 2001:871:22B:616:B014:77AC:1B45:ECF9 (talk) 22:06, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
If you want to argue about this MOS:GENDERID is the place. This article is just reflecting that policy. AquitaneHungerForce (talk) 22:25, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
They/Them
Latest comment: 2 months ago2 comments2 people in discussion
I would like to suggest that the article should state at the beginning that JB uses They/Them pronouns otherwise it is confusing. I was about to correct the pronoun when I realized what the situation was. So please give every one a heads up regarding the pronouns. This should be a standard of all people who use non-standard pronouns. 67.204.247.30 (talk) 22:35, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
I don't think there is any Wikipedia policy recommending that. Some mention of pronouns is recommended only for neopronouns. He/him, she/her, and they/them are not neopronouns (MOS:GIDINFO). Hist9600 (talk) 23:51, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
mistrust sexual violence
Latest comment: 1 month ago1 comment1 person in discussion
Add a link to an interview in Intercept from May 1,2024. "Judith Butler Will Not Co-Sign Israel’s Alibi for Genocide"
Latest comment: 23 days ago1 comment1 person in discussion
What I think should be changed : Add a link to an interview in Intercept from May 1,2024. "Judith Butler Will Not Co-Sign Israel’s Alibi for Genocide"Why it should be changed: This interview adds Judith Butler's commentary on the controversy over remarks Butler made about the October 7 attacks in Israel, and eloquently expands her argument that opposition to Israel's actions is not anti-semitism. I do not have 500 edits, so I didn't try to add it as an external link. Alternatively, it could be added as a reference for the 4th paragraph of the introduction or to the section: Comments on Hamas, Hezbollah and the Israel–Hamas war.[1]https://theintercept.com/2024/05/01/judith-butler-israel-hamas-freedom-speech/ David C Parker (talk) 21:17, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
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