Talk:Killing of Samuel Luiz

While I realise that this may be unconfirmed at present, there are reports that the killers called him "maricón", a gay slur. PatGallacher (talk) 16:13, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi PatGallacher, I wrote the narrative in English by translating the alleged words, as most translators see "faggot" and "maricón" as like-for-like words. The police also have witness reports that other insults like "subnormal" (retard) or "hijo de puta" (son of a bitch) were used, and rightly or wrongly they're following the line of investigation that this was a senseless attack on a stranger, over something as stupid as a mobile phone which wasn't even filming anyone. I must reiterate that I see why a lot of people in Spain find this line of investigation to be minimising, offensive or upsetting. Unknown Temptation (talk) 22:00, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

I believe all news today say none of investigated attackers knew the victim beforehand, nor had an idea of his sexual orientation at the moment of attack. Most probably they used homophobic insults during the attack just as generic insults, which is quite a common use all around. Birdofpreyru (talk) 11:10, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Initial investigations confirm almost without any trace of doubt that he was called 'faggot' and that he was picked to be beaten to death because of his gender expression (being feminine). You can even watch the video (here) of how the assasinated man had no contact with any of the aggressors, and how they went for him without any other possible motive. There's a sole user, Birdofpreyru, who is, with a clearly ill-founded aim, trying to get the sentence that he wrote, saying that that initial investigations disprove this theory, to stay in the first paragraph at all costs, although this is factually completely untrue. This sentence is, obviously, not included in the Spanish version. He has notices for disruptive editing and, if you look at his contributions, he mainly edits far-right parties' articles to downplay their racism or homophobia. Is there any way to immediately prevent him from reverting the edit? He should be banned.Laprivacidadimporta (talk) 00:36, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

@User:Laprivacidadimporta seriously? The currently cited source, which you left for the sentense you are fighting about, says right in the header La Policía no descarta ninguna hipótesis sobre Samuel, pero los primeros indicios no apuntan a la homofobia, which if you are not Spanish-speaker means "The police does not discard any hypothesis regarding Samuel case, but first evidences do not point to homophoby". That is the current consensus in reliable media sources. The reasoning you tried to add However, one witness explains that he could have been likely picked apart on the grounds of his gender expression since he appeared to be feminine. does not come from cited sources, thus it is an original research, forbidden at Wikipedia under WP:NOR, thus I removed it. Birdofpreyru (talk) 09:37, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Once again, the witnesses clearly state that he was picked apart because of his gender expression. It's right there in the video and it's included everywhere else in many reliable news sources. Stop trying to reconstrue facts.Laprivacidadimporta (talk) 00:36, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm just adding the official police statement, and your personal explanation of attack motivation, not taken from sources, thus forbidden by WP:NOR. Please, consult experienced users before trying to remove my edits again. Birdofpreyru (talk) 18:30, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

User:Grandpallama wanna explain wiki rules to the guy above? Birdofpreyru (talk) 18:36, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

For the love of God. If you could just take a quick look at the interview I linked to before, the witness is asked in the minute 3:20 by the TV anchor: "I don't know if they somehow identified his sexual condition", to which the girl clearly replies: "STEREOTYPES". STEREOTYPES. Please refrain from vandalizing the article again. This is undisputed facts confirmed by media outlets worldwide. Please stick to Wikipedia rules. Thank you. Laprivacidadimporta (talk)

Cmon, I'm not touching the piece saying the witness tells that. You are removing the official police statement I added. Also it is not vandalism anyway. I strongly encourage you to seek an advice of an experienced wiki member, before you got yourself banned ;) Birdofpreyru (talk) 19:10, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

And if it puzzles you how a crime where killers called victim a faggot can be non- homophobic, I'll tell you the secret: in many countries on this planet "faggot" is generally used as the worst possible insult to a straight man. You'll see, eventually it'll turn out that killers are naturalized immigrants from a country far far away, where calling somebody a faggot then beating him is just a street norm, no matter the sexual orientation of victim. Birdofpreyru (talk) 19:25, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi, I just edited the victim's answer, as the previous answer "why are you calling me a fa***t?" is incorrect. Since the answer said in the source "Fa***t of what?", the original source is the history of the editing I had done (I censored the profanities, because since it does not let me apply this commentary). CamryWilliamsDO (talk) 17:49, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

I believe, the most literal translation of "¿Maricón de qué?" would be "Fa***t, why?". But I'd leave it up to people with a better command of both English and Spanish to decide what is the best translation here. Birdofpreyru (talk). — Preceding undated comment added 19:43, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Precisely when I translated the comment in Spanish, it literally says in English after having used the translator DeepL (as I had edited yesterday), but I think this comment you make suggest literally gives me understand what it says in Spanish "¿Maricón por qué?"

Although as you say, I hope what is the best translation that others think.CamryWilliamsDO (talk) 11:12, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

That is a word for word translation which does not make much sense in English. I think Birdofpreyru's suggestion is the best as it is the shortest while making sense. Unknown Temptation (talk) 13:36, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

On second thought, I think the person who made the suggestion to Birdo is right. Since with having made the editing the answer, it was not right. Thank you very much for your comments and to Birdo also :) CamryWilliamsDO (talk) 13:02, 16 December 2021 (UTC)