Template talk:College ice hockey team roster

I noticed the template's font size was set at 85% and recent increased font size to 100% to match with other roster templates. I saw it was rved with an edit summary of "compactness" but the smaller font size does not match any of the other ice hockey roster templates and haven't seen it in other sport templates as well. The 100% font size makes the template a bit more readable than the smaller font and it blends with the rest of the article. However I'm open to discussion if you could elaborate on the edit summary "compactness". Bhockey10 (talk) 05:45, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

The main reason I used 85% is to avoid wrapping within cells for users whose screen resolution is not up to today's 'standard'. For example, if your screen width is less than 1209 pixels, you'll find that the DoB column wraps in Boston College's roster table, which doubles its length and is quite annoying. I don't think increasing the font size for readability and blending with the rest of the article is a valid argument because we use smaller font sizes in captions and infoboxes without issue. Nor do I believe what other sport templates do automatically sets the standard for us. (Consistency among college ice hockey pages is more than worthwhile, though, and I hope to replace the remaining templates when next year's rosters are finalized.) However, since you would like an example, I invite you to review any NBA team page. In the meantime, I'm going to revert again because there's no consensus for change (yet – I am open to any changes that will improve the template.) Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 12:00, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

I do like the roster and consistency is nice, I will help phase in this template when updated 2012-13 season rosters come out over the next few months. I esp like the addition of NHL rights. I'm not as worried about other sport templates, however it's good to know that the NBA uses a similar size, I missed that roster checking the various sports. There does seem to be a standard for a regular size roster within WP:Ice Hockey, such as Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey/Team pages format. I haven't seen a smaller font used on any of the NHL teams or college teams, except for UAH Chargers which uses this new template. Bhockey10 (talk) 20:48, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

I looked around a bit more and found MLB roster templates are 95% font, and infoboxes I looked at didn't say but appear to be about the same size. I adjusted the college hky template to see what it looks like on the UAH article. It looks good on my screen and seems to be a nice balance of compact but still large enough... What do you think about 95%? And does it cause any ill affects to older screen resolutions? Bhockey10 (talk) 21:01, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

I considered 95% when I created the template; it causes problems at 1156 pixels or less. The other issue is that the weight, DoB and hometown columns kind of run into each other, and I'm loathe to add cellpadding/spacing because it needlessly stretches the table vertically. I really think 85% is the best way to go, but I wouldn't object if the player names were bumped up to 95% (numbers would probably have to be increased, too). I'm also weighing abbreviating the class column as is done with college basketball rosters. Any opinions on that? Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 21:17, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

I'm inclined to keep the template uniform, either all at 85 or 95, and not bump up one or two fonts. The weight, height and Dob columns seem to run together, but I think it's just all the numbers around each other. On my screen the running together seems to be the same at both the 95 and 85 columns. Does abbreviating the class column help reduce the run-on in the height weight and Dob columns? If so I think abbreviating that and using the 95% font would work best. Bhockey10 (talk) 21:45, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Fine with in-template uniformity. The running-together problem is lessened when the font size is smaller because the spacing is proportionally larger. Abbreviating class would reduce width by perhaps 30 pixels. (EDIT: Because of the header, it probably will not reduce width at all.) I think what we have now is the way to go. Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 23:17, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

I just changed it to a 90%, what do you think of that size and spacing, it looks nice on my screen's resolution and seems to be a balance of compactness and size with spacing. Bhockey10 (talk) 20:27, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Still prefer 85%, for reasons already stated. Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 12:31, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

The abbreviation for LA Kings is "LOS", which is incorrect. Can someone change it to "LAK", like it's listed on the nhl.com? I suspect that some other abbreviations may be wrong too.--Prisencolinensinainciusol (talk) 23:19, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

I just changed all of them to reflect the 2014-15 NHL rulebook's abbreviations (see the schedule starting page ~207.^[1] My session apparently timed out so it just has my IP. There were a few, LOS->LAK and PHO->ARI being notables of the bunch. -Raden (talk) 23:00, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

The Coyotes are no longer in Phoenix they are in Glandale, and are known as the Arizona Coyotes. As such the official NHL abbreviation for them is "ARI" for Arizona". -Raden (talk) 20:09, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

I noticed that despite all of the other information, there wasn't a column for handedness yet. It should be restricted to "R", "L", "R/L". I'd add it myself if I knew how.-Raden (talk) 21:54, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

I thought about this when I created the template, but decided to omit it. I don't believe it would offer any utility. Many teams don't even provide the info. Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 00:50, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

The info is available for virtually all DI teams and a few DIII teams, so it would be good if it was optional but not required. It'll be a thin column anyway so it won't take away much in terms of space for other things. I've since looked over how to go about editing table templates so I'll get around to adding it at some point, making sure that it doesn't conflict with existing templates. -Raden (talk) 19:43, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Why might a reader want to know whether a player is left- or right-handed? Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 01:42, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Why might a reader want to know a player's hometown or position? It's a detail about them that can provide insight into how they play as an individual and how they fit into the overall makeup of the team. Personally I find it interesting seeing how many left-handed players are on teams and I know there are others who are curious about other such details. I don't see why we wouldn't want to give article editor the option to include it if it's available. -Raden (talk) 17:53, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Position is obvious. Hometown gives insight into where a team tends to find recruits. Michigan Tech, for example, tends to have a lot of players from Michigan, British Columbia and Minnesota. That's not a combination one might guess. Hometown also demonstrates hockey's increase in popularity in states like North Carolina, Texas and Arizona. They wouldn't show up very often ten years ago. Handedness, though, is still a puzzling one. Can you pick a random player from some team you're not familiar with and tell me how his being left-handed factors into how he plays? Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 18:31, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

I think you're missing my point so I'll use another example. Why do we have full birthday listed? Most sources only list age; why would being born in January be relevant compared to March or November? Does anyone really care that there are 20 players on a team born in the first half of their respective months? My point is there is a lot of information, it may or may not all be relevant, but we should allow for it to be provided since we are trying to be a useful resource. If we are concerned about space, convert Birthday to "Age" and make it 2 characters total, Handedness is at most 3 (R/L), but I don't think space is the issue.-Raden (talk) 18:48, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Full birth date is relevant for draft eligibility. Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 18:51, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Again, that wasn't my point; those were all rhetorical questions. What I'm saying is that all of these details have merit for varying reasons, some that may not be readily seen. I don't understand why you're so vehemently against adding interesting and relevant information to the template, especially considering that it is optional. -Raden (talk) 18:57, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Not all information sources list the overall pick number, some just have the round number, so the addition of draft rounds was to allow for information to be added at the level of specificity that was available per the used sources. I'm working on automating a large part of generating these so that we don't have 30+ teams with outdated "Current Roster" sections and that was an important part in being able to do that. I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest over how to implement things, I'm just trying to allow for more options. Please let me contribute. -Raden (talk) 20:00, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Automation sounds interesting. Tell me more about your plans. Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 01:43, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

It's already done for the most part^[2], though I'm rapidly losing my drive to work on it any more given how much of a pain this is becoming. A decent portion of the table is generated automatically, with little things remaining that can be touched up manually. Was planning on looking into the Mediawiki API to detect if players had pages and automatically link to them if they did. Having draft rounds as an option allowed a user to place the generated table as-is into Wikipedia and be completely correct given the available sources used to obtain the information (if they weren't motivated to find more specific details on their own). Moreover, some readers like seeing round information in addition to overall picks, which is why I allowed for either or both to be used. If my contributions are unwelcome let me know, and I'll move on to a different project. -Raden (talk) 18:04, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Let's leave the draft portion out of the generated info entirely and force the editor to do a little work beyond copy and paste. There are other formatting issues that you just won't be able to correct (wikilinks to junior teams, high school "league", etc.). Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 18:48, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Why force them? If it is more effort it is less likely for people to be willing to do anything at all, leaving pages with awkward old data laying around as is the case currently. If you want to remove draft info out of it feel free to fork the project and make it optional or remove it entirely. -Raden (talk) 18:54, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Currently there is no way of displaying NHL rights if they've changed hands. The column looks for pick information but if a player's rights have been traded the team that drafted them is no longer the team that holds their rights, leading to outdated/incorrect information being displayed. -Raden (talk) 19:05, 2 May 2015 (UTC)