Template talk:LINZ

Hi, it looks like some bulk update of this template was conducted. Many are wrong or incomplete for two reasons.

Firstly

https://www.search.com.vn/wiki/en/Lake_Rotoiti_(Tasman), https://www.search.com.vn/wiki/en/Kaimanawa_Range the IDs are for completely unrelated features.

Using Wayback Machine I can see that the reference previously pointed to the 'Topographic names database' - this is not the same thing as the New Zealand Geographic Board's Gazetteer. Using Wayback Machine on that page, it even says precisely that in the header:

https://web.archive.org/web/20130505050019/http://www.linz.govt.nz/placenames/find-names/topographic-names-db

For many many other pages the references appear to be updated to have no ID. These are where the reference was bulk updated from the previous iteration of the Gazetteer that did not have unique URLs. Example:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160621122246/https://www.search.com.vn/wiki/en/Tangarakau_River — Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.153.203.47 (talk) 21:20, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

This template incorrectly reports the publisher as Land Information New Zealand (LINZ) but the actual publisher is the New Zealand Geographic Board (NZGB) according to the database licence. While NZGB is hosted on the LINZ data service website, the Gazetteer is controlled by NZGB, not LINZ. Also, it is the board that is legally responsible for place name decisions, rather than the department in general. Can the template be modified accordingly? - Cameron Dewe (talk) 10:10, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Cameron, I've updated the template. Does this now look correct? Schwede66 04:54, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Better now. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 14:00, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

The LINZ template does not seem to support displaying an access date.

For example: {{LINZ|7354|Lyttelton Harbour/Whakaraupō|date=27 January 2021}}

renders as: "Place name detail: Lyttelton Harbour/Whakaraupō". New Zealand Gazetteer. New Zealand Geographic Board. Retrieved 27 January 2021.

without displaying a trailing access date note saying when the database was accessed. Can this be fixed or is there a work around? - Cameron Dewe (talk) 10:35, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

The correct parameter to use is access-date. Schwede66 04:54, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

My mistake. However, it does raise the question of how does one display the date that the official name is valid from. This can be done when using a citation template. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 13:59, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Can you point to an example where you have recorded that date in a cite web template? I would not know how to record that. Schwede66 18:07, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

In the Toponymy section of Lyttelton Harbour, I have written "In Māori the harbour is known as Te Whakaraupō, which translates as Bay of raupō" and cited (a) "NZMS 346/2 Te Wai Pounamu, The Land and its People". www.linz.govt.nz. Wellington, New Zealand: Te Puna Korero Whenua The Department of Survey and Land Information for the Ngā Pou Taunaha o Aotearoa New Zealand Geographic Board. 1995. Retrieved 30 January 2021. as well as (b) "Place name detail: Lyttelton Harbour/Whakaraupō". New Zealand Gazetteer. New Zealand Geographic Board. Retrieved 27 January 2021.. I have had to use 2 citations here because the NZGB database cites the original the map and it has a date of publication. In this case I need to cite the map, which was published in 1995, because it has a translation of the place name on the back that differs from the translation from other sources, such as the Christchurch City Libraries, which is undated.

The NZGB database includes the date of the event that caused a place name to become official, or be amended, and entered into the database. Also there is often a publication date and map sheet reference in which a name is recorded. Knowing that event date, one can more easily locate the press release or publication that documents that place name in more detail. I am not saying it is essential that showing a date be possible, but in other web citations the date of the web document can be cited by using the (publication) date= parameter, as well as the orig-date= parameter if the current publication is a re-publication of a more historic name announcement. If the LINZ template is used then showing this date is not currently an option. The question I have is in 2 parts: (a) should it be an option? and (b) if is to be an option, what parameters should be used? I understand there is a trade-off here between fit for purpose functionality and complexity, so I am happy if the answer is "No". On the few occasions that one might want to indicate when a place name changed, one can always cite the press release or other documents causing the name change, especially when one needs to explain what happened in the history section, too. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 23:10, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

I see. That makes sense; we could capture this through the parameter date as you suggest. Frietjes hasn't edited in a few days but she'll be back! Schwede66 00:49, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

@Schwede66 and Cameron Dewe: I added |date= as an alternative to |access-date=. let me know if there is not what you wanted. Frietjes (talk) 16:37, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

@Frietjes:, thanks so much. We’ll try it out. Schwede66 16:48, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

If named parameters are used as indicated in the template instructions,

such as {{LINZ|id=7354|name=Lyttelton Harbour/Whakaraupō|date=27 January 2021}}

I get unexpected results for the place name,

such as "Place name detail: Lyttelton Harbour/Whakaraupō". New Zealand Gazetteer. New Zealand Geographic Board. Retrieved 27 January 2021.

Although the URL is correct. Also, I noticed that using a mixture of named and un-named parameters, which would be non-standard, can cause a URL error in some combinations because the first word of the place name is used in the URL in place of the id number. What is the correct usage? - Cameron Dewe (talk) 10:59, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

I suspect it's the slash that's causing the issue. That's beyond my skills to fix. Frietjes, if you have a moment, could you kindly take a look at this? Dual names that use a slash are becoming increasingly common in New Zealand. Generally, it's a spaced slash but some are unspaced. Schwede66 04:54, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

I found if I use unnamed parameters such as {{LINZ|7354|Lyttelton Harbour/Whakaraupō|access-date=27 January 2021}}

then I get: "Place name detail: Lyttelton Harbour/Whakaraupō". New Zealand Gazetteer. New Zealand Geographic Board. Retrieved 27 January 2021.

so I don't think it is the slash on its own. I also noted there was a syntax error in the original code where there was an unnamed and empty first parameter,{{LINZ||id=7354|name=Lyttelton Harbour/Whakaraupō|access-date=27 January 2021}}, which rendered as "Place name detail: Lyttelton Harbour". New Zealand Gazetteer. New Zealand Geographic Board. Retrieved 27 January 2021. Also the behaviour appears to differ in the template environment, compared to the main article namespace. Since the unnamed parameters appear to work with a slash, with or without a separating space around the slash in the name, I wonder if it is named parameter text handling that is throwing things off. An easy solution is to change the instructions to use unnamed parameters. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 04:25, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

@Schwede66 and Cameron Dewe: I think I fixed the problem. the documentation said |name= but the code uses |title=. I added |name= as an alternative to |title= so both will work. let me know if there is still a problem. Frietjes (talk) 16:40, 4 February 2021 (UTC)