Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nargiz Birk-Petersen

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. JGHowes ^talk 03:19, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nargiz Birk-Petersen

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An IP editor, for about a week or so, has continually tried to get this article deleted via PROD. They have been told to take it to AfD but, being an IP editor, they can't do so. Here are some comments from them:

The notability topic needs to be discussed rather than unilaterally deleting my concerns. Nothing of note was added. Again, per Wiki guidelines, single event people are not notable if they can just be added to the main article as a list item (as she already is.) All the rest are just life facts common to thousands of people. She has zero career in law, zero career in television. It’s literally just Eurovision hosting one time—and she was one of three hosts.

The whole article is about how she hosted Eurovision once in 2012. This is a news story, not a Wiki article. She has nothing else meeting Wiki’s notability requirements. It appears to be a self-promotion article.

Page should be deleted for lack of notability; it's enough that she is listed as under Eurovision 2012 page as one of three hosts. You *can* be notable for a single event, but it has to be "The historic significance is indicated by persistent coverage of the event in reliable secondary sources that devote significant attention to the individual's role." This does not meet that requirement

I am neutral. My reason for taking this to AfD is because the persistent deletion requests are disruptive. If the community decides that this topic is not notable then it should be deleted but if the community decides that she is notable, then the IP needs to stop with the requests. Spiderone 18:52, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Azerbaijan-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 18:54, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 18:54, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 18:54, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy Keep - As a presenter of the Eurovision Song Contest she is notable. Presenting the worlds biggest music event is. Per WP:GNG. Sources are good. Her involvement in the bid for the Olympics are notable as well. Another set of Eurovision presenters who’s articles was kept based on Eurovision, [[1]], [[2]], [[3]]. BabbaQ (talk) 19:37, 10 December 2020 (UTC) [reply]

Delete Thank you for adding this, and sorry if I am annoying you. It is clear from the history of the page that really only BabbaQ has an interest in its existence for some reason. I reviewed the history. Even back in 2012 it was discussed that it should not exist because it was such a naked page. It hasn't come very far since.

Sometimes a single event is enough per Wikipedia guidelines, but this is not such an event. In addition, each Eurovision Contest has a corresponding page with all the relevant information. Who hosted the event is listed there along with everything else you need to know. This page should just be merged with the Eurovision 2012 page. https://www.search.com.vn/wiki/en/Eurovision_Song_Contest_2012

Other than that, the article says she is an "Azerbaijani television presenter and commentator." No citations for that. Also, she doesn't even live in Azerbaijan anymore and so she doesn't do that work anymore. Her Twitter profile (https://twitter.com/NarguizBirk), which notably has only 1,000+ followers and no "blue verified account" marking, says she is: "Azerbaijani-American, lawyer, mom of three, host of Eurovision 2012." Again, this shows she is known for one event, and that fact is already duly noted on that page, "Eurovision Song Contest 2012."

I just wish for some moderators/administrators who are neutral to evaluate my points 2600:8801:C804:B700:B824:3B23:8D6E:6BAD (talk) 20:37, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

IP is evading his current block as IP 2600:8801:C800:234:0:0:0:0/64. The open proxy was blocked by @Materialscientist:. And is the official nominator. BabbaQ (talk) 20:50, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know what you mean by that. I requested to be unblocked. I assumed my request was granted because suddenly I was able to edit again. I didn't do anything to "evade" a block. Anyway, can we maybe stick to the merits of the discussion about this page's potential deletion? 2600:8801:C804:B700:B824:3B23:8D6E:6BAD (talk) 21:08, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - if we have a sperate wiki article for almost 100% of Eurovision presenters, why not for the subject of this discussion? Check out those presenters: Erik Solbakken or DJ Pasha or Jacques Deschenaux. Kolma8 (talk) 21:23, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In response to Kolma8, those pages you point out are really bad too -- utterly barren and not helpful. They should probably be deleted too. As for the many other Eurovision presenters, the vast majority are well-known singers or presenters, who are notable for achievements before and after Eurovision. Those should remain, but short pages that basically give two line bios about someone who hosted Eurovision once do not merit stand-alone pages. 2600:8801:C804:B700:B824:3B23:8D6E:6BAD (talk) 21:56, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy keep: Literally no reason to delete this; a notable host of the Eurovision Song Contest. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 23:22, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The responses to my point that we should delete this article fail to address the reasons or engage in any meaningful discussion. According to Wikipedia guidelines, WP:BIO1E, "The general rule is to cover the event, not the person. However, if media coverage of both the event and the individual's role grow larger, separate articles may become justified." This applies here. The individuals role was not covered at such depth to merit a separate article about it in addition the one we already have on Eurovision Song Contest 2012.2600:8801:C804:B700:B824:3B23:8D6E:6BAD (talk) 01:07, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You are aware that WP:BIO1E states If the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, a separate article is generally appropriate. She was a main presenter of the Eurovision Song Contest. Eurovision is part of ITN/R. As highly significant as per Wikipedia guidelines, to appear annually on ITN. If you find Eurovision non significant, sadly that is POV. That is my final word in this discussion. BabbaQ (talk) 01:29, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, as per WP:GNG and WP:BIO1E. The Eurovision Song Contest 2012 is considered to be a highly significant event, so a separate article for its host is certainly appropriate and should be kept. ― Ætoms ^[talk] 12:36, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I actually feel that WP:GNG and WP:BIO1E would support deletion. While the event is notable itself, the presenter's part is rather interchangeable. The presenter has clearly moved on from being in the public eye and it is unlikely that the article will ever grow larger than a stub for a one-off appearance and a brief mention of some smaller gigs. The event has received significant coverage, not the presenter or the presenter's role itself. Grk1011 (talk) 15:25, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

She is within the notability guideline. Hosting Eurovision is notable. BabbaQ (talk) 15:56, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@BabbaQ: I disagree. The contest is notable, but I don't believe hosting is notable enough on its own to warrant an article if it's the only "notable" thing they've done. Was there substantial coverage on her specifically, more-so than just saying that she presented it? Like reporting on the significance of her being the host? Grk1011 (talk) 23:34, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to respond to BabbaQ by pointing out the example given in notability per WP:BIO1E: "The assassins of major political leaders, such as Gavrilo Princip, fit into this category, as indicated by the large coverage of the event in reliable sources that devotes significant attention to the individual's role." Nothing in the article indicates that reliable sources "devote[d] significant attention" to Nargiz Birk-Peterson's role. She's just "host." And the main point of Eurovision are the participants/performances, not the hosts anyway. It's certainly worth mentioning on the Eurovision Song Contest 2012 page; no one is disputed that. This article, however, is just a "stub" and has been for 8 years without any improvement (because none is possible). 2600:8801:C804:B700:20E9:4B69:2EF9:7BB9 (talk) 18:01, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This has been a Start article. And has been expanded throughout the years. Its certainly not a stub.BabbaQ (talk) 17:38, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, the article had already developed beyond stub-class, but in any case: it has undergone major improvements in the past few days, so now it is certainly not a stub anymore. Multiple sources have been added that devote more in-depth attention to Birk-Petersen (more than just stating that she is "host"). These are reliable and independent secondary sources and thus the WP:GNG criteria have been met. ― Ætoms ^[talk] 23:11, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am not the one who gave it the "stub" title; that was on the bottom of the article the day I looked at it and made that comment. I would note that adding details about someone's personal life, education, etc. doesn't add to their notability. I am totally not notable but can cite way more sources about my education and career than what has been added. Virtually everyone with a job has that level of coverage. Again, there's nothing more than one time almost a decade ago she was one of three hosts of one Eurovision. 2600:8801:C804:B700:5F2:9EAB:BD12:7867 (talk) 19:46, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Not enough sources. Does not meet WP:GNG. Peter303x (talk) 21:32, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Peter303x: I'd like to point out that the article has been expanded over the past few days. Maybe you would want to reconsider your stance based on the new sources that have been added. ― Ætoms ^[talk] 15:55, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your note, but I still think it doesn't have enough significant coverage to meet WP:GNG.Peter303x (talk) 21:22, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep - Changing my stance to Strong Keep. After improvements done since nom. Hosting Eurovision Song Contest is notable and has been established through several AfDs just to mention a few [[4]], [[5]], [[6]]. Eurovision is part of ITN/R at ITN as established notable and important. WP:BIO1E states If the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, a separate article is generally appropriate. She was a main host of the Eurovision Song Contest so is within WP:BIO1E and WP:GNG. The sources are improved even further and extensive third party sources. Her ties to the Olympics are established as well through third party sources. The article is fully sourced. BabbaQ (talk) 23:20, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - I agree with the above points; a C list celebrity is a celebrity nonetheless.OgamD218 (talk) 09:58, 12 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@OgamD218 This is not the standard. WP:BIO1E and WP:GNG are the applicable Wikipedia standards. The point remains that Eurovision is a highly significant event, but each of the numerous decades of individual contests each year is not so particularly significant as to warrant both an individual article (which each year's Eurovision already has) and, in addition to that, separate articles for each of the multiple hosts (in this case, three hosts). If the hosts aren't independently notable, and if there is not significant coverage of the hosts particular role, a separate article for the host is not appropriate. Here, the additional sources added by BabbaQ are just different sources tell us that she was the host. There is no "significant" information (or any information at all, in fact) about her specific role, important occurrences as host, etc. It should be noted that the various votes for "keep" don't explain using the appropriate Wikipedia standards. 2600:8801:C804:B700:ED80:9E5A:4948:2F3A (talk) 04:17, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The IP is misreading Wikipedia policies. WP:BIO1E states If the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, a separate article is generally appropriate. She was a main host of the Eurovision Song Contest so is within WP:BIO1E and WP:GNG. And there is a precedent of several Eurovision hosts articles that has been Kept because of simply hosting Eurovision. OgamD218 and Davidgoodheart understand and reads these points correctly. BabbaQ (talk) 11:39, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If the IP was correct this entire article would only be a paragraph or so.OgamD218 (talk) 10:16, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, for the reasons of those who want this article kept. Davidgoodheart (talk) 10:29, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WP:BIO1E, WP:GNG and ITN/T are pretty clear indeed. The article is within guidelines. BabbaQ (talk) 11:39, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Davidgoodheart and BabbaQ If it meets the standards of WP:BIO1E, why has no one voting “keep” been able to point to anything that remotely shows “large coverage of the event in reliable sources that devotes significant attention to the individual's role." There is no “large coverage” of this single year of 2012 Eurovision, and especially none that devotes significant attention to the individual's role." Just repeating it doesn’t make it so. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8801:C804:B700:F997:FC2E:72AA:AA00 (talk) 15:39, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Just as you repeating over and over that Nargiz is not notable does not make it true. I strictly follow the guidelines which shows notability for this individual. POV does not trump guidelines. BabbaQ (talk) 17:33, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Still no references to "large coverage" that "devotes significant attention to" Nargiz's role as host of Eurovision 2012. 2600:8801:C804:B700:C86E:CCAB:8FB6:8968 (talk) 21:42, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

[7], [8], [9], [10] and [11] all focus exclusively on Birk-Petersen and her role as presenter of the Eurovision Song Contest 2012. The sources are there; they just happen to be in Azerbaijani, Russian and Danish. ― Ætoms ^[talk] 15:42, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, meets WP:GNG as brought out by above editors' sources and in line with WP:BIO1E. Coolabahapple (talk) 15:51, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Coolabahapple @Ætoms If you can read those languages, you can see that the sources are tabloid magazines. The Danish "article" is a 3-minute interview where she says her husband is Danish and she's a lawyer who is unemployed and needs a job. Hardly "significant" coverage of a "notable" figure. There is more significant coverage of the prom king and queen of the high school dance in my local newspaper. Perhaps they should have their own pages too? 2600:8801:C804:B700:5F2:9EAB:BD12:7867 (talk) 19:37, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure if I should even take this seriously, because you have clearly not looked at all of them. Ekstra Bladet is definitely a tabloid, but that doesn't mean it's not a valid source. It's an interview, so no gossip or rumours or anything. And even then, I don't think Ekstra Bladet would have devoted an article to her if they didn't think she was notable. The other sources are news agencies and are not at all tabloid magazines. ― Ætoms ^[talk] 20:56, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ow, ow, ow, ow, ow, ow, ow, ow....... plus Zinger!. Coolabahapple (talk) 06:47, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy keep Whoever she is, presenting the Eurovision song contest already qualifies for notability.--NicolaArangino (talk) 21:25, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I think the case by BabbaQ is the most compelling. Meets WP:ENTERTAINER. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 01:07, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.