Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Supir Istimewa

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy keep‎. Nomination withdrawn with no remaining deletion proposals. (non-admin closure) Atlantic306 (talk) 22:22, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Supir Istimewa (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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There is no evidence this film meets WP:NFILM. The only coverage I can find of this film is listings in film catalogs and promotion for the film. EDIT: To clarify a bit here, there are seven sources in this article. After a search I was able to find one more (Varia), although it is only mentioned once. That gives us 8 candidate sources. Of these, two are promotional (brochure, and De Locomotief). Two are film catalogs (Kristanto 2007, Biran 1979) and so do not establish notability, one is a list of an actor's filmography. This leaves two sources, Vara and Kentaja. The Vara article seems to only mention the film in passing but lets assume generously it passes. The last source is... weird (describing a film released 3 years before as a "new film"?) and frankly I wouldn't trust it, especially since it is unverifiable. Allan Nonymous (talk) 14:36, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. Nominator has failed to explain how the existing sources in the article do not demonstrate notability -- this is a common pattern with their nominations for Indonesian film articles. Jfire (talk) 15:19, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Please don't cast aspersions here. I went over every single source here, in addition to looking at google books, and news. If you have any concerns about any source in particular that you may think is notable, please feel free to raise it, and I will tell you what my opinion on it was. Allan Nonymous (talk) 16:29, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Film and Indonesia. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:21, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep: I see no reason to dismiss the 2 books quoted. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 20:10, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I'm not sure what two books specifically you are referring to here, could you elaborate? Allan Nonymous (talk) 20:41, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Kristanto 2007, Biran 1979. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 21:07, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  So, I actually looked at Biran 1979, and it only provides tangential coverage of the movie in two spots, both of which are talking about the careers of people who were involved in the other works. I don't have access to Kristanto 2007, but given its similar topical focus, I'm not very confident it will be much better. Allan Nonymous (talk) 21:26, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep: I think the Biran book What and Who: Film Figures in Indonesia, 1926–1978 is a solid source. I also think the nominator is being too hasty in dismissing the Kentjana review (New Film: Supir Istimewa). For one thing, the date isn't three years off — both the film and the review are dated 1954. And more importantly, the nominator's statement "I wouldn't trust it, especially since it is unverifiable" is not backed up by policy. I don't believe that Kentjana has been evaluated before as a reliable source or not, so "I wouldn't trust it" is a personal feeling rather than a rationale. Furthermore, WP:OFFLINE explains why offline sources are just as good as sources that are currently convenient to access online. The editor who added that information to the article apparently had access to a 1954 Indonesian film review, and I have no reason to suspect that editor of inventing the source out of thin air. Toughpigs (talk) 21:16, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Sorry about Kentjana, I screwed up the date there. Will strike that. I was more worried about the lack of catalog number than about the lack of access. Allan Nonymous (talk) 21:26, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - When I get home from Toronto I can see if I still have my scans of the 1950s articles, but when I wrote the article I did have them. Furthermore, Persari distributed its films nationally, and frankly that alone satisfies WP:NFO, point 1 (Delpher may have listings of screenings if Allan wishes to verify, but their coverage is spotty for the 1950s). The fact that Indonesia has not digitized its magazines to the same extent as western nations is not evidence of a lack of notability; it is evidence that any sources available are going to be offline and difficult to verify for anyone without access to Perpusnas or Sinematek Indonesia. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 04:34, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As for the catalog sources: Biran 1979 is a compendium of brief biographies that he compiled for a government project, and is used here for citing biographic data (what the main stars did subsequently). Kristanto 2007 (and Filmindonesia.or.id, which is a digital continuation of the catalogue) is the most recent printed edition of Kristanto's film catalogue, and is used for uncontroversial information that is also supported by primary sources. Neither is used to ascribe notability to the film. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 04:39, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• I have copied the Kentjana source to Google Drive in a zip file, if anyone wishes to consult it (I also found an excellent image of Netty Herawaty behind the scenes on Lewat Djam Malam, so definitely worth the dive into these old rephotographs).  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 20:53, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - per Chris explanations above. My capacity to access any sources available are going to be offline and difficult to verify for anyone without access to Perpusnas or Sinematek Indonesia is a time thing - due to my access to materials - weekly at the most.JarrahTree 05:07, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep: Original nom here, changing my mind per Chris Woodrich's excellent work here. Allan Nonymous (talk) 17:33, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.