Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tarik Nehai

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. After a month in the AfD pages and three relistings, it would not be too bold to acknowledge that this debate has run its course, with consensus supporting the preservation of the article. The sole call for deletion beyond the nominator raised a genuine concern about sourcing, but the points raised about problems in locating Arabic-language sources are also valid. Perhaps those who are serious about keeping this article will take a proactive effort improving the sourcing - but if none can be located, this debate can be started anew in the near future. For the moment, however, this is a (somewhat long-winded) non-admin closure. And Adoil Descended (talk) 13:36, 24 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Tarik Nehai (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Declined speedy because "played at highest level for country." Notability guidelines at WP:NSPORT say a person is "likely" to meet WP:BASIC if person competed at the highest level of their sport. However, the only reference on this page is a deadlink, and surely even if it was still working a single reference on a sports blog is not sufficient to meet the notability guidelines. There seems to be virtually no coverage at all. FuriouslySerene (talk) 21:35, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. SwisterTwister talk 23:15, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. SwisterTwister talk 23:15, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete The source isn't even about the subject. Its a table which has the subject's name in it [1]. This is not thorough coverage. Fails GNG. CerealKillerYum (talk) 01:40, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  Reply to SwisterTwister:Added secondary sources. Sander.v.Ginkel ^(Talk) 06:25, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  You added 3 sources, [2], [3], and [4]. The first one is a press release so it doesn't count. The last two are about the 25th and 26th Arab Volleyball Champions Club, respectively. It is not about Tarik Nahai himself. This makes the last two fail WP:SPORTCRIT as local coverage must be beyond WP:ROUTINE. So, yes, you added 3 sources but none of them helps establish Tarik Nehai's notability. CerealKillerYum (talk) 03:00, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  Reply Most of the sources are about his less notable coaching career (2006, 2007, 2008). The simply reason, most of the secondary sources of 1994 you can't find online or are in the Arabic language. Sander.v.Ginkel ^(Talk) 07:27, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:MUSTBESOURCES. You can't just assume sources exist, you need to actually provide them. FuriouslySerene (talk) 13:36, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong keep Repaired link and added secondary source. He played at the world championships and so obviously meets Volleyball notability guideliness, see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Volleyball/Archive 1#National team participants. Sander.v.Ginkel ^(Talk) 06:19, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, I do think you should mention you are the page creator (and have creator dozens of similar permastub articles). None of those sources appear to be reliable sources. The first three sources have a different spelling of Nehai's name. Can you even confirm the correct spelling of his name/that this is the same person? Anyways, volleyball isn't even mentioned in WP:NSPORT. You're supporting your keep from a talk page of a wikiproject - it's not even an essay. The notability guidelines are pretty clear - playing at a high level provides a presumption that there is significant coverage of the person. If the only available sources simply say he existed and played for a team, then for what reason should we keep the article? At best this could be merged or redirected to the 1994 Algerian men's national volleyball team (which, I must point out, the notability of which is also questionable). FuriouslySerene (talk) 13:24, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Reply, You say Anyways, volleyball isn't even mentioned in WP:NSPORT. This doesn't say anything, actually it indicate that WP:NSPORT is far from complete. Volleyball is one of the most popular sports worldwide (see for instance here, and here). Volleyball is much more popular than other sports listed at WP:NSPORT. The spors listed at WP:NSPORT indicates which athletes are notable at international and national level, and of course all sports listed include the World Championships participants. In summary, this person is notable because it played for the national team at world championships and the article also has secondary sources. Your main points are about quality, not notability. And if I read the first three sources, the names are in all the three sources written as Tarek Nehai, but another spelling is possible because of the translation from the Arabic language. Sander.v.Ginkel ^(Talk) 07:05, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

If you think volleyball deserves to be on NSPORT, you're welcome to seek consensus to have it added. But it's not on there (just like hundreds of other sports aren't on there). Which leaves WP:GNG, which he clearly does not qualify for. Besides, your sole source for even saying he appeared at a world championship is based on a website called todor66.com. And it says nothing about whether he played in a game or not. FuriouslySerene (talk) 13:34, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep The subject is a member of an international sports team. He played in the World Championships. No basis whatsoever to even consider deletion. Greenman (talk) 10:07, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You mean other than WP:BASIC, WP:GNG, or WP:NSPORT? Nothing on any of those pages support keeping this article. FuriouslySerene (talk) 13:24, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"An athlete is presumed to be notable if the person has actively participated in a major amateur or professional competition or won a significant honor" Greenman (talk) 18:00, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You missed the last part of that sentence: "as listed on this page" and "so is likely to have received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject." Volleyball isn't listed on the NSPORT page. Many sports and other activities are not listed there - there's only around 30 on the page. There's almost nothing on this person other than it appears that he was on the Algerian national team (based on a very low quality website with questionable reliability). It's not even clear if he even appeared in a game at the 1994 championships. FuriouslySerene (talk) 13:58, 27 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that only 30 sports are individually listed on the NSPORT page I interpret not as that only 30 sports have notable competitions, but as examples. I don't hold that that representing one's country in the World Championships is not notable. Greenman (talk) 11:05, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That's not correct. If you look at the talk page for NSPORT you'll see suggestions to add other sports. Adding another sport requires a process of seeing whether we can actually assume there is substantial coverage for athletes who participated in events in those sports. FuriouslySerene (talk) 14:23, 19 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No. Run the articles through Google Translate. They are not international competitions. They were the 25th and 26th Arab Championships. The article wasn't even about the subject. They were about the match itself. They merely had his name in it. CerealKillerYum (talk) 03:03, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure which comment you're referring to? Are you doubting that the person appeared in the World Championships? I agree that the new sources added refer to his coaching career. Greenman (talk)

[5] that is the only source that says he played on the world championships. That is just a mention of his name. That can not be used as a source about him as it is a mention and not an article about him. [6] that source and a few others uses " 26e édition du championnat arabe" which is "26th Arab Clubs Championship." Some of the sources on the page are about the 26th Arab Clubs Championships and not about the World Championships. Those arab championship articles are mere mentions too.CerealKillerYum (talk) 06:14, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per Greenman. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 13:03, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Take a closer look at the sources. CerealKillerYum (talk) 03:03, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per above. He has played at the highest level and we must remember that Wikipedia has a systematic bias against topics from non-English speaking countries. I would suggest that an Arabic speaking editor or an editor residing in Algeria could probably find plenty of sources for an accomplished national volleyball player.--TM 14:12, 21 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Regarding WP:MUSTBESOURCES, it's fine if there is a reasonable belief that those sources do not exist. But we have a policy that specifically allows for someone who has played at the highest level, so this allows us to be a little more flexible (and patient!) in getting those sources. There is plenty of reason to believe they do exist, and the article is not without any sources at all. If the article contained no verifiable sources at all, then sure, delete it, but that's not the case. There is no reason to rush to deletion. -- RM 02:45, 22 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.