Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Witcher (TV series)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to The Witcher#Film and television. This is really, Merge with Draft:The Witcher (TV series) and redirect to The Witcher, but for practical reasons (i.e. the automation can't handle that), I'm going to just redirect this for now. The full history is still there, so anybody who wants to grab the current content and merge it into the draft, please go ahead and do that. The draft can get moved to mainspace when appropriate sourcing exists.

There's an interesting discussion here of the relative merits and applicability of WP:TV, WP:NFF, and WP:GNG. I don't see any agreement on that, but there is a clear consensus here that this isn't ready for mainspace yet. -- RoySmith (talk) 16:04, 1 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The Witcher (TV series) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Article has recently existed both here and at The Witcher (U.S. TV series), but was moved to draft at Draft:The Witcher (TV series) as production has not yet commenced on the series. Television series where no filming has occurred, or only a pilot has been ordered, do not typically received articles by the WP:CONSENSUS of WP:TV, in the same fashion as WP:NFF. Information available on this article can easily be moved to The Witcher#Film and television article/section until production actually commences, which, as far as I can tell, has already occurred. Neither the draft nor article currently provide further specific or detailed information, and the article also currently consists of speculated information. -- Alex^TW 08:44, 14 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Support Agree with consensus of WP:TV. No associated talk page, redirects to that of The Witcher — Preceding unsigned comment added by Matt14451 (talk • contribs)

@Matt14451: Please sign all comments with ~~~~ on all discussion pages. Thank you. -- Alex^TW 08:48, 14 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry I forgot. Matt14451 (talk) 08:49, 14 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete From the article: No broadcast date has been announced. Hissrich at one time speculated on a 2020 release, but later retracted that statement. At best this article is WP:CRYSTAL. It may never air. When the series creator can't even speculate on a release date you know there are problems. I concur with AlexTheWhovian's assessment. --AussieLegend (✉) 09:04, 14 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, as creator. The topic meets WP:GNG because of substantial coverage in reliable sources as shown through the references in the article. In view of the GNG, whether or not production has begun is irrelevant (although it clearly has, since people are being cast.) WP:TV is a project and not a community-adopted guideline. Sandstein 09:48, 14 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

And why can the content not be listed in the section listed as above in the parent article? "Production beginning" means the commencement of principal photography, as per the related guideline also linked above, and you've been unable to cover either that nor the speculation in the article on the air date violating WP:CRYSTAL. What's the point in having WP:TV if it's not used to maintain some level of standard in television articles? Shall we ignore them for whatever article we personally choose? -- Alex^TW 09:52, 14 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There's no "point in having WP:TV" as far as I'm concerned. It's just a WikiProject made up by some people. It does not represent wider community consensus. Only properly adopted guidelines and policies do that, and WP:GNG is one of them. It says we can make articles on topics that have received substantial coverage in reliable sources, as is the case here, which you do not contest. Sandstein 11:36, 14 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

WP:CRYSTAL is policy, and that applies here. WP:NFF, which is referenced by WP:CRYSTAL, applies to TV as well as films and it says Films that have not been confirmed by reliable sources to have commenced principal photography should not have their own articles, as budget issues, scripting issues and casting issues can interfere with a project well ahead of its intended filming date. That also applies here. --AussieLegend (✉) 11:46, 14 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) Sandstein, your personal opinion on the WikiProject has been noted; however, WikiProjects exist in the dozens on almost every major topic, so that editors can gather to discuss articles in the same category, and partake in discussions about them and gain consensus' on standard practices. They exist no matter if you like them or not - if you want to get rid of them, take it elsewhere, else respect them and the editors in them. And I do dispute it - a few sources on a few topics does not necessarily satisfy GNG, it has certainly not received "substantial coverage", and it doesn't satisfy it enough to have a separate article, especially when all of the content can be included in the parent article on the book series. You still cannot answer the questions on the principal photography, for which the Film WikiProject actually uses WP:NFF (yes, an actual guideline, as you like to point out, and as already pointed out by myself and Aussie above), or speculative content in the article. -- Alex^TW

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 10:46, 14 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge with Draft:The Witcher (TV series) and redirect to The Witcher#Film and television: this fails WP:NTV, or if you want something with wider scope, it also fails WP:GNG because the sources are all routine. There are also WP:CRYSTAL concerns until it reaches a stage where we can be at least pretty sure the show will make it to air. — Bilorv_(c)(talk) 13:55, 14 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Article meets notability guidelines, such as GNG. WP:NFF does not apply, neither should it, as films and television series have very different production processes. Somethingwickedly (talk) 14:02, 14 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There is already agreement between multiple editors that it fails GNG, and that NFF does apply in its principal photography clause. -- Alex^TW 14:05, 14 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

So what... I disagree with them; you're not the thought police and you can't control other people's opinions. That said, I am just one individual, so yes I am in a minority with my opinion at the moment. I have simply stated my view. Somethingwickedly (talk)

• Comment By the way, nobody's suggesting we actually delete and nerf the entire article. Just that the content be merged into the book series article and the existing draft, and that the existing location still exist as a redirect. -- Alex^TW 14:09, 14 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge or draftify as appropriate, and create again once filming of the series has begun. This is pretty standard for all TV series, even those on streaming services. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:01, 14 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, already deleted once. Project should be mentioned on main The Witcher page and draft should be brought into mainspace once principal photography begins. 77.100.241.132 (talk) 15:23, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Remove it I think section in main art. and draft will do and consider instant making of articles after some early news a mistake. Project could still rot in development hell, no matter amount of gossip about it. Mithoron (talk) 20:55, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Draftify: Way too early to have an article, leave it in draft status for the time being until more information comes out. The Optimistic One (talk) 19:39, 18 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per WP:CRYSTALBALL. Netflix "intends to" doesn't mean anything. Per WP:NFF, principal photography has not begun yet and therefore the TV series is not notable. I understand that WP:NFF applies to films but if anyone can pull up a more relevant policy for TV I will change my opinion based on that. – FenixFeather ^{(talk)(Contribs)} 22:30, 23 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Just a note that WP:NFF is for films, WP:NTV is for TV, which doesn't mention filming (someone need to add that first instead of claiming consensus). WP:NTV however needs updating as Netflix operates differently from other TV channels. Hzh (talk) 23:00, 29 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge with Draft:The Witcher (TV series) and redirect to The Witcher#Film and television (as proposed above) or Keep, primarily for practical reasons: 1) so that we do not have to keep deleting new articles on the same topic, and merging their updated content into The Witcher#Film and television, and 2) so that we do not have to discuss it again in a few months. WikiHannibal (talk) 16:30, 30 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.