Talk:2022–2023 mpox outbreak

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to 2022–2023 mpox outbreak, along with most per-country articles and stuff from Category:Monkeypox (to be submitted to WP:C2D). No such user (talk) 18:05, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

The result of the move request was: Boldly putting this on hold as the result is basically contingent on the move request at the Mpox article. I'd encourage all interested to join the discussion there. Ajpolino (talk) 20:48, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak → 2022–2023 mpox outbreak – This was proposed last November, but rejected with some editors feeling it was premature. Time has moved on. Since then, the monkeypox article was moved to mpox and there has been discussion on the Talk page for that article that unanimously supports switching from "monkeypox" to "mpox" in this article too: see Talk:Mpox#Related articles. However, that discussion has only involved 4 of us and we should get consensus here. Mpox and mpox outbreak is the terminology now used in WP:MEDRS-compliant sourcing, by WHO, by Nature, by Science, by articles in The Lancet, by the CDC, by CNN, etc. etc. Bondegezou (talk) 09:55, 28 February 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. No such user (talk) 08:57, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

I agree, and we should change the whole set of articles (apart from the virus). You will see I did place a "Rename proposal" earlier here and in every related article, directing discussion to the main mpox talk page. It is a shame that there wasn't more response, but I don't think we should need to do a rename proposal for each article, as my notice should be enough.

I was stalling making the change myself while the -23 issue was uncertain. While I continue to believe the renaming to add -2023 was premature, it now does look likely to be adopted and so we might as well keep that. So all these articles should be named "2022–2023 mpox outbreak" and variants on that theme, as well as their body text updated. -- Colin°^Talk 10:27, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Support, per nom. Ajpolino (talk) 15:01, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

• Strong oppose, the monkeypox page was moved early and controversially. I've opened an RM to get consensus on what the page should be. That should be settled before this is moved.--Ortizesp (talk) 16:38, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Ortizesp is mistaken. The move for the main Monkeypox article to Mpox was done a month ago following extensive discussion: see Talk:Mpox#Update. There were 6 editors in favour of moving versus just one IP editor against. The move was not done controversially: I suggest Ortizesp strike that comment. Bondegezou (talk) 17:03, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

But it appears there was no official WP:RM opened. Whatever discussion took place would have been only among those people watching that Talk page of the article, as the wider Wikipedia community was not informed that this was being considered. The fact that there was some further back-and-forth move activity for the article after that is evidence that the move was not uncontroversial. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:26, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

WP:RM is explicitly not mandatory. The move at mpox was uncontroversial: editors discussed the matter and came to a near unanimous decision. The move was made and no-one complained. Then, a month later, an editor apparently new to the article moved the page back yesterday with no discussion whatsoever, which I reverted. That editor has since acknowledged their error. Bondegezou (talk) 18:56, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

And now an RM has been opened. It seems that you and I (and Ortizesp) may have a different understanding of what constitutes controversiality. Differences in perspective don't necessarily make people who have a differing view mistaken or mean that their comments should be struck. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 20:22, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Ortizesp opened the RM. Ortizesp effectively saying the same thing twice is not corroboration of Ortizesp's position. Bondegezou (talk) 22:08, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Ortizesp has now acknowledged that they had missed seeing the earlier discussion when they opened the RM at mpox: see User_talk:Ortizesp#Close. Bondegezou (talk) 09:02, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Alternatively: returning the page whence it came, i.e. back to 2022 monkeypox outbreak as the end date of this disease is not known and it may extend into 2024 and beyond. There was no discussion to include 2023 as part of the title. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 21:45, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

• Wait for the other RM to settle. Although the other request was created later (and as a direct response to this one), if it succeeds, it would resolve this one as well. O.N.R. ^(talk) 00:03, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

  Are you happy either way? That is, if the decision is for mpox to stay at mpox, you would then support the corresponding change here? Bondegezou (talk) 08:48, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

• Procedural close It should follow the consensus at the other requested move, or stay where it is if there is no consensus. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 02:49, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per Ortizesp and per comment by BarrelProof. Monkeypox is indeed the WP:COMMONNAME — There are 457 inline cites and five external links at the bottom of this article and virtually all of those refer to the viral disease in question as "monkeypox", rather than as "mpox". —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 04:19, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

  As per the policy at WP:NAMECHANGES, Sometimes the subject of an article will undergo a change of name. When this occurs, we give extra weight to independent, reliable English-language sources ("reliable sources") written after the name change. This article has lots of citations from last summer, but the name was changed after those. As per policy, we should focus on recent usage. I gave examples of recent usage at the start of this discussion. Bondegezou (talk) 08:48, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

• I don't think we should have an essentially identical discussion in two places. The main "mpox" article seems more appropriate than this one. Please discuss at the Talk:Mpox#Requested move 28 February 2023 but note that there are also important points made at Talk:Mpox#Monkeypox or Mpox?. Also note that at the tail end of that previous discussion, we did discuss the -2023 name change. I was initially opposed to it, but it does seem now that organisations responsible for declaring and handling the outbreak (and its end) are now including -2023 in the name. So we should follow them.

User:Bondegezou I wonder if you could make an admin request to close or suspend this discussion until the other one is over. Otherwise it will just be a mess. -- Colin°^Talk 08:57, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

• I agree. We should close this request for the time being and focus on the discussion at Mpox, which is in danger of turning in to an ill-informed vote. Graham Beards (talk) 10:31, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

• Comment. Talk:Mpox#Requested move 28 February 2023 has been closed, concluding that "Mpox" is indeed a new common name per WP:NAMECHANGES, while many posters missed the memo. While I'm inclined to move this one along, I'll relist it instead, in the case that someone brings a new argument in favor of "monkeypox outbreak" (since it was the common name at its outset). No such user (talk) 09:02, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
• Support: Per the consensus at Mpox, and the stance of the WHO, CDC, PAHO, etc. Iskandar323 (talk) 10:21, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
• Support for the same reasons I gave at Mpox. Graham Beards (talk) 10:23, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
• I already noted my support. There is some discussion earlier at Talk:Mpox about the related articles. Sources using the proposed "2022–2023 mpox outbreak" in 2023 include: WHO "the 2022-23 mpox outbreak", CNN "the US led the world in cases during the 2022-23 outbreak. More than 30,000 people in the US have been diagnosed with mpox, including 23 who died", Infection Control Today: "Mpox Emergence: A Review of the 2022-2023 Outbreak". Nature news notes that "https://web.archive.org/web/20230303085002/https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00391-9 At a 15 February [2023] press conference, the WHO’s director-general said that mpox would remain a public-health emergency. The agency’s emergency committee will reconvene in three months to reassess the situation." So the WHO have not declared this outbreak "over", which they have the authority to do. The ECDC continue to monitor the outbreak as of March 2023. An exception to this list would be CDC who currently refer to it as the "2022 Outbreak" (though they very much use the mpox name) and the CDC declared the US outbreak over in February. So one could perhaps argue that the US outbreak article(s) could drop the -23 suffix based on the CDC source alone, but I think that is likely to cause confusion per WP:CONSISTENT and the CDC may end up falling into line with their colleagues as they continue to update their pages on the outbreak. -- Colin°^Talk
• Support move to mpox from monkeypox per the same reasons and consensus at the main article discussion. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 10:56, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
• Comment I first proposed this change and remain of the same view. The lengthy RM discussion at Mpox has clearly established that "mpox" is the WP:COMMONNAME. We should change this article, and indeed I suggest also all of Timeline of the 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in Ghana, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in South Africa, Monkeypox in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Monkeypox in Nigeria, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in Asia, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in India, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in Israel, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in Japan, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in the Philippines, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in Singapore, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in Taiwan, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in Europe, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in Austria, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in Belgium, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in France, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in Germany, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in the Republic of Ireland, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in Italy, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in the Netherlands, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in Portugal, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in Spain, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in Switzerland, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in the United Kingdom, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in North America, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in Canada, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in Mexico, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in the United States, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in New York (state), 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in South America, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in Brazil, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in Chile, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in Colombia, 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in Peru and 2022–2023 monkeypox outbreak in Australia. Bondegezou (talk) 11:47, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

I have alerted all those Talk pages, and the Talk page for the navbox. Bondegezou (talk) 12:01, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

• I support this as well, not only for the reasons stated above, but also for concision's sake. Iskandar323 (talk) 11:54, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

• Support as per other article's RM discussion. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 12:48, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
• Support changing article titles for the disease outbreaks to "Mpox" throughout, per Bondegezou above, all per Wikipedia:Article_titles#Consistent_titling. Ajpolino (talk) 16:37, 8 March 2023 (UTC)