Talk:Eendracht (1615)

This ship's record in the VOC database has the following entry as one of its voyages:

reis vertrek op van   naar    aankomst   op kamer  schipper 1    14/06/1615 Texel Ternate 17/09/1616           Willem Kornelisz. Schouten

This entry would seem to be belong to another ship of the same name, since the dates of this voyage overlap with that of Hartog's 1st voyage to the East Indies. It appears that Willem Schouten did have a vessel of that same name (if this is the same Willem K Schouten who rounded Cape Horn), although this was earlier. It therefore seems likely to me that this particular entry in the database is confused, and this mention belongs to some other ship, not the one in question here. --cjllw | TALK 10:09, 2005 July 12 (UTC)

There are some errors in the information in the various databases. There were many ships with the name Eendracht. According to the journal of Jacob le Maire [1] the ship Eendracht that was captained by Schouten was "180 lasten", which is 225 ton. The information in [2] says that Schouten sailed on a ship of 700 ton. So this can not be correct. [3] lists all the ships used by the VOC, and the details of each ship show that the Eendracht used by Hartog was very much bigger than the Eendracht used by Schouten. I therefore corrected this information in the article 86.84.4.3 09:29, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

As an addendum, note that my translation from the Dutch sources is not exactly an expert one; therefore, there may be some errors or variance in the interpretation- buyer beware! --cjllw | TALK 00:22, 2005 July 13 (UTC)

Am I correct in assuming that "upper steersman" is the translation of opperstuurman? A steersman is however in Dutch a roerganger and the opperstuurman would be equivalent to the first mate or chief mate.--MWAK 15:40, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

The account of the voyage of Schouten and Le Maire says they left Holland in 1615 and travelled to Batavia via Cape Horn, arriving at Batavia late in 1616.

Meanwhile Dirk Hartog left Holland in the same year 1615 and travelled to Batavia via Western Australia in 1616.

These were 2 different Eendracht ships. Why the shipping companies were so bereft of alternative distinct names, I don't know.

Anyhow, this wikipedia article is about Hartog's ship. Yet the illustration is by Schouten and is obviously the 'other' ship. This same illustration appears in the article and Schouten and his voyage via Cape Horn.Eregli bob (talk) 02:35, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

The vessel shown in the painting is not of either Eeendracht, as outlined below.

HISTORY of PAINTINGPainted in 1618 (probably August as indicated by 'Verso' below)Purchased from S. B. Bos by Rijksmuseum, February 1888

ARTIST: Aert Anthoniszoon

ORIGINVerso: passeren van 't Staten Yacht voorbij Iselmonde Augustus MD & CXVIII

RIJKSMUSEUM ACCESSION No.:SK-A-1446

RIJKSMUSEUM CATALOGUE ENTRY:Het schip 'De Eendraght' voor IJsselmonde in het jaar 1618 tijdens de treugreis [sic -terugreis] na de ontdekking door Schouten en Le Maire van Kaap Hoorn en de Straat van Le Maire. Links het dorp IJsselmonde met een kerk en kasteel, rond het schip zeilen het Statenjacht en andere schuiten.["The ship 'The Eendraght' before IJsselmonde in the year 1618 returning after the discovery by Schouten and Le Maire of Cape Horn and the Strait of Le Maire. Left is the village of IJsselmonde with a church and castle, around the ship the States Yacht and other barges are sailing."]

RIJKSMUSEUM CATALOGUE DATING:1617

RIJKSBUREAU VOOR KUNTHISTORISCHE DOCUMENTATIE TITLE: IJsselmonde, de thuiskomst van het schip 'De Eendraght', na de ontdekkingstocht naar Kaap Hoorn" [IJsselmonde, the arrival of the ship The Eendracht, after the discovery of Cape Horn"]

RIJKSBUREAU VOOR KUNTHISTORISCHE DOCUMENTATIE DATING:1618

RIJKSBUREAU VOOR KUNTHISTORISCHE DOCUMENTATIE ART-WORK No.:9597

Issue

The Wiki Commons file linked the painting with Dirk Hartog and the Eendracht which encountered the west coast of Australia in 1616.

The catalogue entry associates the painting with the Eendracht that Jacob Le Maire and Willem Schouten sailed in around Cape Horn and through the Straits of Le Maire.

Chronology of Hartog's voyage in his Eendracht

Departed from Texel on 23 January 1616Encountered west coast of Australia 25 October 1616Reached Batavia 14 December 1616Departed from Banda 17 December 1617 bound for ZeelandLetter - Supercargo Buysero to Managers of Manager of VOC - 31 August 1617 reporting Eendracht had 'come upon' west coast of AustraliaArrived back in Holland 16 October 1618Departs for East Indies again from Texel on 13 May 1619, wrecked off west coast of Ambon in 1622

Chronology of Le Maire and Schouten's voyage in their Eendracht

Departs from Texel on 14 June 1615 in company with the HoornHoorn lost to fire at Porto Desire 19 December 1615Round Cape Horn 29 January 1616Reached Ternate on 12 September 1616Reach Batavia on 28 October 1616Eendracht confiscated in Batavia for contravening the VOC monopoly as per its charterLe Maire, Schouten and remaining crew return to Netherlands in AmsterdamLe Maire dies en route 22 December 1616Schouten in Amsterdam arrives back in Zeeland 1 July 1617Court rules in 1619 that seizure of Eendracht was unlawful

CONCLUSIONThe painting is not of either Eeendracht

According to "S. P. L." in 1864, the painting could depict something else, Johan van Duivenvoorde and Hugo Grotius on their way to Dordrecht in August 1617 to negotiate with the City Council regarding a national synod. It is noted the yacht on the left carries the flag of Amsterdam.Rupert Gerritsen (talk) 16:56, 25 September 2012 (UTC)Rupert Gerritsen