Talk:Wuhan/Archive 1

This needs the city box, as shown on the Nanjing page. craigTheBrit 18:18, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Wuhan's climate is humid subtropical (Köppen Cfa) with abundant rainfall and four distinctive seasons. = pretty sure that you mean "distinct seasons", but seasons are, by definition, distinct, why not just leave that adjective out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.239.84.146 (talk) 02:01, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

I changed Tang bao to Xiaolongbao, but it may be wrong. In Wuhan, there are Xiaolongbao, but they are called Tang bao. Can someone advise? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 05:43, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

It's been a long time since I was in Wuhan, but I think you're right—I heard xiaolongbao in Beijing and, to a lesser extent, Shanghai, but tang bao in Wuhan.

Although, from what I remember, the real big one in Wuhan is 煎包 (fried baozi). rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 05:50, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

：I am from Wuhan, bao, means bum, xiaolong, means the little stemer, therefore, xiaolongbao, means small steam bum, tangbao, means, soup bum, jian bao, means stir fried bum, Xiao Long Jian Bao, means little stir fried bum. Bum is just like bread with meat with different size. common size is weight of 50g, the small one is smaller than ping pong ball and about or less 20g(User:azload) —Preceding undated comment added 18:33, 15 July 2011 (UTC).

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The Cuisine section mentions "a wide variety of distinctive snacks with a long history in Wuhan, such as ... youguo (a deep-fried twisted dough stick) in the Song and Yuan dynasties". Can you compare/contrast/clarify youguo with Youtiao, which seems to be the same thing. No mention of the term youguo on the youtiao page, so not clear if this is a typo here, or regional name for youtiao, or ... ? 64.7.70.234 (talk) 21:16, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

My goal for the Wuhan article is that the page will be able to go from a C-level article to a B-level article in the coming year or so. To reach this goal, I started today by adding whatever I could find about Wuhan that was already on Wikipedia that wasn't linked or noted on this page. There are undoubtedly some errors, but I hope we can sift through it and make this a top notch page. Wuhan is building two buildings which will be among the top two or three tallest buildings on Earth, and I think it would be a pity if there wasn't a high-quality page about Wuhan on Wikipedia as interest in Wuhan grows. Geographyinitiative (talk) 14:59, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• HUN Pest megye COA.png

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:21, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

Wuhan is currently under lockdown because there is a deadly virusoutbreak. If you are in Wuhan, minimise contact. For more info look at

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/risk-assessment-outbreak-acute-respiratory-syndrome-associated-novel-coronavirus Lassebeg (talk) 13:10, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

The addition has been removed several times already. The main reason is that this is an encyclopedia article, it's not its purpose to give instructions or warnings. A further problem with that version is that the health warning was in a section of its own above everything else: this means that the lede (the article's introductory section) had ended up part of it (which it ought not to be), and that all the content of the article (including the health warning) had been pushed down after the table of contents. – Uanfala (talk) 13:34, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Article calls this virus 'novel'

The semantics of 'novel' imply a usual positive meaning - how about finding a better word - eg 'uncommon' -- ?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robfwoods (talk • contribs) 10:28, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Novel means new in this context, which COVID-19 is. Unless a new coronavirus has already started spreading, but that is very unlikely. 2A00:23C4:2401:6D00:49EB:5EA0:144D:3F7B (talk) 15:30, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

The intro has become too long. I think some of the last few paragraphs should be moved to other sections, including the coronavirus outbreak paragraph. Ganymede94 (talk) 20:49, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

• https://www.wired.co.uk/article/wikipedia-coronavirus

---Another Believer _(Talk) 20:06, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

I have removed the option to collapse the weather box in the climate section by default. Climate information for a city is essential information and should not be hidden by default. This is the first city article I have seen on wikipedia where the climate table was hidden by default and it is not a good idea (for comparison, see Chicago, Tokyo, Milan, London, etc). Many ordinary readers of wikipedia do not realise that a collapsed box contains hidden information and that they need to click on it to expand it. Oska (talk) 20:31, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

No evidence for the above assertion on many ordinary readers other than WP:IDONTLIKEIT. See New York City#Climate, Boston#Climate; if people are too tech illiterate issue is on them. CaradhrasAiguo (leave language) 20:52, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

To give just one example this article has two very long tables listing sister cities that are not collapsed. The climate weather box is more compact and is far more important information about the city than showing its sister cities. And I find your arrogant dismissal of less tech literate users of wikipedia very concerning; we should make information here as accessible as possible, especially essential information like a city's climate data. Oska (talk) 21:09, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

I have looked at the style guide and, as I would expect, they warn against collapsing content in this way. See MOS:DONTHIDE. So I am using my 3rd edit on this article today to once again make the climate information table viewable by default. Oska (talk) 21:27, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

You ignored the first sentence in the section MOS:HIDE, which is quoted as "Scrolling lists, and collapsible templates that toggle text display between hide and show, can interfere with readers' ability to access our content."; text referring to prose Open a discussion at Template talk:Weather box if you want to see your crusade through, not violate WP:BRD. CaradhrasAiguo (leave language) 00:50, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

You have badly (purposefully?) misread the style guide. The weatherbox contains text, you are indulging in sophistry to reinterpret text as meaning prose.

But anyway, the third paragraph spells the policy out explicitly with its first sentence bolded. I quote: Collapsible templates should not conceal article content by default upon page loading. This includes reference lists, tables and lists of article content, image galleries, and image captions. Please note that tables are specifically mentioned as something that should not be collapsed by default. The style guide then goes on to discuss in the fourth paragraph when it may be allowable to collapse tables. This is when information contained within is 'purely supplementary' or somewhat deprecated. Neither of these conditions apply to the main climate information of a city which is essential, non-supplementary information. Oska (talk) 11:53, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Oska’s interpretation appears to be correct, the style guide clearly says that the default should not be collapsed. Horse Eye Jack (talk) 22:33, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Response to Third Opinion Request:

Disclaimers: I am responding to a third opinion request made at WP:3O. I have made no previous edits on Wuhan/Archive 1 and cannot recall any prior interaction with the editors involved in this discussion which might bias my response. The third opinion process (FAQ) is informal and I have no special powers or authority apart from being a fresh pair of eyes. Third opinions are not tiebreakers and should not be "counted" in determining whether or not consensus has been reached. My personal standards for issuing third opinions can be viewed here.

Opinion: One particularly wise Third Opinion Wikipedian, RegentsPark, once succinctly put the purpose of Third Opinions like this, "It's sort of like if you're having an argument on the street in front of City Hall and turn to a passer-by to ask 'hey, is it true that the Brooklyn Bridge is for sale?'." Oska is clearly correct that the third paragraph of MOS:COLLAPSE says that this should not default to collapsed due, among other things, to the fact that some viewers cannot uncollapse it due to technical issues (without regard to their level of technical expertise). It should not default to collapsed. If other articles default their weather tables to collapsed, that's probably an error that ought to be corrected at those articles unless there is a consensus at that article to do it that way.

What's next: Once you've considered this opinion click here to see what happens next.—TransporterMan (TALK) 16:17, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

I saw that some information is missing in this article, I will look for links to some news that I read months ago. Ana Gauna (discussão) 13h17min de 21 de março de 2020 (UTC)

• Vi que está faltando algumas informações nesse artigo, vou procurar os links de umas notícias que li meses atrás. Ana Gauna (discussão) 13h17min de 21 de março de 2020 (UTC)
• https://g1.globo.com/ciencia-e-saude/noticia/2020/01/22/cidade-chinesa-de-wuhan-epicentro-do-coronavirus-e-isolada-e-tem-transporte-publico-trens-e-voos-cancelados.ghtml
• https://brasil.elpais.com/internacional/2020-01-21/novo-virus-chines-tem-contaminacao-entre-humanos.html
• https://www.rtp.pt/noticias/mundo/coronavirus-o-que-e-e-como-comecou_i1203294
• https://gauchazh.clicrbs.com.br/saude/noticia/2020/01/coronavirus-confira-como-a-doenca-surgiu-na-china-e-se-espalhou-por-outros-paises-ck5xzklrq03fn01plpktc59dj.html
• Meses atrás li que a provável causa do coronavirus foi o costume dos chineses misturar perto um do outro: cobras, morcegos, e insetos diversos num mercado em Wuhan
• https://www.bbc.com/portuguese/internacional-51453567
• https://veja.abril.com.br/saude/coronavirus-pode-ter-sido-transmitido-por-sopa-de-morcego-e-carne-de-cobra/
• https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/jan/23/coronavirus-timeline-from-wuhan-to-washington-state
• https://time.com/5774366/how-coronavirus-spread-china/
• https://moraremportugal.com/prefeito-de-wuhan-admite-ter-escondido-dados-sobre-coronavirus-e-oferece-seu-cargo/
• Leia histoplasmose = morcegos = https://www.minhavida.com.br/saude/temas/histoplasmose
• Read Histoplasmosis + bats + coronavirus + covid19
• Em Dezembro/2019 eu li jornais de vários idiomas, noticias que falaram que a causa da criação do coronavirus em Wuhan (China) foi o costume dos chineses deixar juntos animais vivos: cobras, morcegos, escorpião, lagartos, e vários tipos diferentes de insetos. Existe notícias em vários idiomas com essa informação em Dezembro/2019 na internet. Ana Gauna (discussão) 18h11min de 21 de março de 2020 (UTC)
• In December/2019 I read newspapers of several languages, news that said that the cause of the creation of the coronavirus in Wuhan (China) was the custom of the Chinese to leave live animals together: snakes, bats, scorpions, lizards, and several different types of insects . There is news in several languages ​​with this information in December / 2019 on the internet. Ana Gauna (talk) 18:27, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
• https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/10/asia/wuhan-coronavirus-update-intl-hnk/index.html
• https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/06/health/wuhan-coronavirus-timeline-fast-facts/index.html
• https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-51271037

The article needs an update, although, frankly, I could not find a section about the COVID 19 Pandemic. Retail businesses reopen in Wuhan, China's original coronavirus epicentre https://www.cbc.ca/news/china-wuhan-stores-reopen-1.5514658 ... On Monday, 70 to 80 per cent of shops on the Chuhe Hanjie mall in the city centre were open, but many imposed limits on how many people could enter. Shopkeepers set up dispensers for hand sanitizer and checked customers for signs of fever. Peter K Burian (talk) 22:31, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Wuhan logo.png

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Beijing Skyline.webp

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Since @Nkon21: insisted on me to take this topic into the talk page (even though I extremely in my mind disagree to create a consensus on an edit like this because it's a good assumption that everyone should agree with the edit). Basically, here's the idea:

Wuhan's current infobox image is to my eyes absolute cringe. The inclusion of the city seal, the use of having the city motto "Wuhan, different every day (每天不一样)", the inclusion of the city flower and city tree, and the usage a person who was once a resident of the city (Li Na), all inside the infobox image. Like no city infobox image in all of Wikipedia does that, at all. What I propose is to replace the current infobox image:

with a Multiple Image template like the one below: (or some other version of it)

File:Sunset of Wuhan(2017-11-02).jpg

It is much better than the current infobox image because it is much simpler, gives the city the attention it deserves by showcasing its most (and I mean most) prominent buildings, locations, and skyline, and disregards the unnecessary glitter than the current infobox image gives such as the need of a celebrity, a logo, a seal, a city tree, and a city flower. It would be like all city infobox images because it just gives a simple summary of what the city looks like. It would even help shorten the caption of it. Even so, the use of a template would revolutionize infobox images as nobody would have to create new images of montages to put in the infobox image, lessening the work and stress for it.

Okay @Nkon21:. I straight up do not get you and I do not understand your pattern of edits. For example, the Shenzhen article. You changed the infobox image (the current infobox image) of that article (the previous infobox image was my design as well) with the template that I am proposing to put in this article. I did not even mind because I thought the inclusion of that template was better than my image design (since it had black borders) so I did not let my ego get in front of me and was humble acknowledging that your edit is beneficial which is why I did not do anything. But the big thing? You did not even use a consensus for it. You did not mention anything that you were changing the infobox image in the talk page of Shenzhen, and I (as one of Shenzhen's big editors) did not mind! Now let's go to the Guangzhou article. So in the talk page, you did ask for consensus to change the infobox image (which I AGREE was outdated) to the multiple image template. Nobody responded. When I made that edit using YOUR multiple image template edit anyway without using the consensus (I did not see your consensus in the talk page until now), you responded by not reverting the change that I made but by fixing it and making the appearance of the image of the multiple image template better. So all of a sudden, when I want to apply YOUR design of an infobox image with the multiple image template into Wuhan, you reverted my changes and said, "gain consensus before you make the change." Like what? Is it because Wuhan is too controversial to be edited due to the Covid-19 pandemic which is why everything needs consensus in this article? How could you not see that it is a blessing for YOU when I use YOUR template design for the infobox image design in this article? I am reasonably frustrated by this and wish to get a response by you in this.

Pinging China editors @WhisperToMe:, @Zanhe:, @CaradhrasAiguo:, and @Esiymbro: on this. - 祝好，Josephua^(聊天) 04:24, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

This has nothing to do with the current pandemic. The reason why I made you come to the talk page and gain consensus before changing this montage specifically, is that I think the current one adequately summarizes nearly every aspect of the city into one montage. The city flower, city tree, almost all the notable landmarks, are all included into one single picture. That being said, it gives readers a pretty accurate and holistic representation of the city as possible. As the sheer number of images makes the montage look sort of cluttered, I wanted to gather input from other editors to see whether they think the current montage should be kept or removed, and the best way to do so is to move the conversation to the talk page and wait until a consensus is reached. And by the way, don't call this "my" template, I just used the same photomontage sourcing from other articles into these cities. ɴᴋᴏɴ21 ❯❯❯ talk 04:40, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

At least what you said makes a bit more sense on your perspective, but then it comes to question about the consistency of your personal tastes on these image template montages. I will not question why do you have these personal tastes but question why do you not apply these personal tastes (which is Wuhan's current infobox image design) on Shenzhen and Guangzhou respectively. Your infobox image edits on Shenzhen and Guangzhou are just basically the summary of the cities with the images based on the known parts of the city, and they do not include the metro system, the city flower, the city bird, every historical building in the city. It's just a simple montage, as compared to Wuhan's current infobox image. - 祝好，Josephua^(聊天) 04:58, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

@Josephua My response to your "question" is that the Wuhan montage was already made available as it was made by somebody else who uploaded it to the Wuhan article. It just so happens that it included that city flowers and seals and all that. It obviously does its job well as it was used as the montage for 3 years without being challenged by any other editor, well until you. As for the Guangzhou and Shenzhen montages, I only edit and replace images with those available on Wikimedia Commons and Flickr (if they're free). As I have to take into account the sizing of montage images, including all the city plants and seals and stuff would only make the montage too long. I have no desire to go ahead and fuss around with some editing software to create an entirely new montage, I just don't have the patience. ɴᴋᴏɴ21 ❯❯❯ talk 06:26, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Comment: Based upon New York City the seal and flag are separate from the montage. For New York City and London I only see landmarks and buildings, and not people nor city flowers/birds/etc. Tokyo also has just buildings and landmarks in its montage, with the seal and flag separate. WhisperToMe (talk) 05:01, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Agreed that per the summarizing purpose of infoboxes and WP:PROPORTION, the seal, city tree and city flower in Montage of wuhan(2017).jpg are ridiculous in the context of other major cities' infobox montages (e.g. not even Chengdu, nicknamed the Hibiscus City / Rongcheng, or Guangzhou, nicknamed City of Flowers / Huacheng and which even has a well-known annual springtime Flower Fair, have infobox montage photos focused on flowers). The inclusion of Li Na is also curious; Wuhan isn't named after a founding father or known as the birthplace of one revolutionary Communist above others. The objection that COVID-19 renders anything in Wuhan (or elsewhere) that isn't tied to the WIV or the brief paragraphs in the History section is quite farfetched, and would not muster if applied to other major outbreak locales, such as Daegu, Bergamo, Madrid, London, or NYC.

I will go out on a limb and state that I prefer the Yellow Crane Tower image in Montage of wuhan(2017).jpg over Josephua's proposal, though, simply for the tower's name being larger and there being less "tree cruft" in the foreground. CaradhrasAiguo (leave language) 05:03, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

@CaradhrasAiguo: That could be done.

File:Sunset of Wuhan(2017-11-02).jpg

- 祝好，Josephua^(聊天) 05:08, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Actually, I think Yellow Crane Tower, 2013 photo.jpg is a much better fit, as it is 6 years more recent than the one Caradhras suggested and the statue of the cranes, which are supposedly the namesake for the tower, are visible in the foreground. As it is already featured on the article, it should be removed if used in the montage. I also suggest that you replace the snake hill image as it is way too old. ɴᴋᴏɴ21 ❯❯❯ talk 05:18, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Done.

File:Sunset of Wuhan(2017-11-02).jpg

- 祝好，Josephua^(聊天) 05:31, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

There's a lot more recent Yellow Crane Tower images available on the commons. Why use that one specifically? ɴᴋᴏɴ21 ❯❯❯ talk 06:36, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Nkon21, that is immaterial compared to the central issues of 1) reduction in number of images 2) which features to select. CaradhrasAiguo (leave language) 03:39, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Support. Having 15 images comprising the montage is pretty overwhelming compared to any other major city in the world. Tokyo, London, New York City, Beijing all have 4-6 images. If the pictures do a good job at describing the city perhaps they should have another place further down the article. Ch3wy (talk) 20:10, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Consensus has agreed to the new infobox image changes. I will insert the new infobox image into the article now. Nkon21, you are free to change the Yellow Crane Tower image, but at least keep the layout. - 祝好，Josephua^(聊天) 16:49, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Hustlibrary fukan.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:37, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

In one or two places at the top of the article, the simplified Chinese characters look badly spaced (crowded together). I don't think its my local software, because the traditional characters appear correctly.Ambrose H. Field (talk) 10:22, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

@Ambrose H. Field: It works fine for me. It is probably your software. Can you check other Chinese city articles to see if that is the case? - 祝好，Josephua^(聊天) 16:56, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

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The COVID-19 pandemic started in Wuhan^[1] 99.232.51.215 (talk) 15:02, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: Already mentioned in the article. TheImaCow (talk) 15:59, 15 June 2020 (UTC)