Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lucy Grantham (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. There's some desire expressed to keep or redirect the page to the film, but discussion consensus is that insufficient reliable sources exist to support the page as a biography of a person not clearly proven deceased. I'm going to redirect the deleted page to the film, per thoughts expressed in this discussion. BusterD (talk) 12:54, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lucy Grantham

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This biography was originally deleted 15 June 2020 due to "lack of in-depth sources". The same objections apply to the recreated article: subject does not meet notability under WP:NACTOR, which requires "significant roles in multiple notable films". Muzilon (talk) 03:59, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Women, Sexuality and gender, and New York. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:17, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been added to the WikiProject Pornography list of deletions. • Gene93k (talk) 07:04, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

- keep** seems to be notable based on references SanDiegoDan (talk) 21:35, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I believe the references fail WP:SIGCOV. Only one notable film ("Last House"). Her few other appearances were non-notable supporting roles in obscure low-budget/porn productions. The obituary cited for the Lucy Greenberg who died in New York in 2023 has no biographical information - we don't even have a reliable secondary source to verify that this is the same person as the subject. Muzilon (talk) 23:57, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 04:11, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 09:30, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete there are a lot of hard-to-justify sources in this article. Agree we can't see that the aliases actually correspond to her. It seems that both obituaries are of different people. All we have is one major film, and I don't think that's enough for WP:NACTOR at least without some significant coverage devoted to her. Oblivy (talk) 12:59, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Probably not meeting ACTOR, but we seem to have enough for GNG, a detailed biography and some coverage of her life after the Wes Craven film. Oaktree b (talk) 13:06, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Oaktree b curious what you're seeing in terms of biography. She gets mentions for the Wes Craven film, but I only see biography in terms of the obituaries neither of which is clearly her. (Go ahead, change my mind!) Oblivy (talk) 13:46, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sources 2 and 3 mostly, seem to flesh out the article. An actress with one role for which she's remembered, the rest is nicely detailed. I think we have GNG. Oaktree b (talk) 23:04, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If by "source 2" you mean the engagement notice for "Miss Lucy Grunther" in the NY Times, I doubt whether that qualifies as independent of the subject - it may well be a paid advertisement. If source 3 is the Fred Lincoln interview, that is very much a trivial mention of a "Lucy" whose surname is not even given. Muzilon (talk) 23:48, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agree it's a nicely detailed article but I don't see how this article has been constructed out of the sources, unless Source 2 and the Szulkin book have a LOT of biographical information.

1 - mismatch of birth year (1948 vs 1951) and the description of Lucy doesn't provide a clear link
2 - can't access but if it's an engagement notice that's not really notability-worthy
3 - dubious as it just says "Lucy" in a passing mention, although Lincoln did co-star with her in Last House.
4 - passing mention, unclear if this is the same person as it's not about a movie she's known to have acted in
5/10 - can't access the Szulkin book
6/8 - brief mentions plus a quote
7 - about the movie not her
9 - barely a passing mention, just lists her as an actress in the movie and in a photo caption
11 - mentions her a lot as part of the extended DVD features
12 - no content, possibly not about her (again, the 1948 birth year)

Oblivy (talk) 01:08, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: As the nominator, I would support a redirect to Last House on the Left, her only notable film. Muzilon (talk) 01:22, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I could have helped in improving the article but there was no any reliable source to what the biography says after making my research on google. The subject does not meet a stand alone wiki page but can be mention as one of the cast to the article movie The Last House on the Left.--Meligirl5 (talk) 10:16, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well put. I wish this article could be saved but there just isn't sourcing. Perhaps merging with the movie article (although that implicates issues of undue weight being given to one actor). Oblivy (talk) 14:39, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, we could include a couple of sentences about her in the "Last House" article, but much of this biography seems to be veering into WP:PSEUDO. Muzilon (talk) 21:01, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Consensus is close to being reached. Final relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shadow311 (talk) 14:40, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - WP:ENT Would have been helpful to see the original 2020 deletion nomination version of this article, but I find no access to it on Wikipedia. This current article seems to have been created as a new article. The article claims, "After starring in several porn loops in the early 1970s ... " but only two films listed before her so-called breakthrough. Of her five films listed, one was an unaccredited role, one was a short film. In one, she plays herself. There is just nothing that justifies keeping this. — Maile (talk) 16:23, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I figured out how this was created, in spite of the original deletion. The Baudelaire Fortune created Draft:Lucy Grantham as a redirect to the title Lucy Grantham. So it looks like a brand new article, instead of the one that was deleted. So in other words, The Baudelaire Fortune found a way around the deletion process. — Maile (talk) 20:11, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Wayback Machine has an archived copy of the version that was deleted in June 2020. Muzilon (talk) 20:49, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the link! — Maile (talk) 03:28, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.